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Neolib.net

No one wants to define "Neoliberal"?
Alright, we'll define it here.

Good Message Boards

good debates, philosophy, politics, economics, social issues

Below are some good message boards which are easy to get into. You have to register, but it's easy and you can post right away. These ones are open to all viewpoints. They don't kick you off or censor you arbitrarily as long as you obey the reasonable rules of politeness, etc.

These boards let you move from one post to another on the same topic without needing to click to another page. You can just scroll down through multiple messages which address the topic and argue with each other. These are a great debate forum for people who like to argue. Arguing is good.

FreeStateProject.org
Libertarian-oriented. Proposals for freedom-lovers to all move to one state and try to "take it over." Philosophical arguments about how to pull this off and what should happen in the "free state" after they "take it over."

3rdParty.org
Another minor political party. Maybe the best. Has a "Convention Floor" (message board) which lets participants shape the party's policies/platform proposals. Not necessarily conservative or liberal or moderate or ----. Just seeking the best positions on all the issues. (Note: This message board has had technical problems which hopefully will be (or are) fixed.)

XAT.org
Perhaps a little flaky, this one. Kumbayah, sweetness and light, butterfly wings, etc. But open to all viewpoints. Proposes a new economic system without taxes or "usury". But you can disagree and offer your own theories.

LibertyForum.org
Mostly libertarian. Lots of topics, easy to get lost.

More sites will be added to this list. This listing will be limited to high-quality message board sites only which allow easy access and are open to all viewpoints on the announced topics.



Here are some other pages/topics of interest:

PoliticalPlatform.net
Democrats, Republicans, Libertarians, move over! Here is the "Best Political Platform" for the U.S.

FreeTradeForever.com

Neolib.net What is a "neoliberal"? Have you heard this term being thrown around? What is neoliberalism? Is this a political philosophy someone is promoting?

Night Owl Mk. II Philosophy of Life Good arguments, "Agree with me or show me where I'm wrong"

Minimum Wage Law Who is made better off by a minimum wage law? If such a law is good for society, why not increase the minimum wage to $30 or $40 or $50 per hour?

SocialContract.com

Labor Theory of Value Does anyone really defend the labor theory of value anymore? Where are you Marxists? Come and defend this theory or admit that Marxism makes no sense. Have you all jumped ship?

Write-in.net

That's a Lie! A listing of lies popularly told and accepted in society. Know any good lies? Add your own example(s) to the list.

OK2Kill When is killing right and when is it wrong? Capital punishment, euthanasia, etc.

Eugenics.net

ForbiddenIdeas.com like those just above. Do you know of any good "forbidden ideas"? ideas that make some people (the mindless idiot types) want to call you a commie or nazi or worse, just for mentioning them? Have some fun -- get called something evil by adding your own "forbidden idea" to the list. You haven't lived life to the fullest until you've been called a dirty name by some idiot.

WhyTheyHateUs.net The "war on terror" // Militant Islam vs. the West

DebateClub.net

Extensive list of minor political parties (You might have to scroll down a little to get past the 2 major parties.)

Shorter list of alternative political parties (some of the more serious ones):

The Third Party

The Revolution

Constitutionalist Party

Multicapitalist Party


Do you know of a good website that should be listed with the above? The best kind are those that are controversial and give some invitation to visitors to get their own opinions posted in response.

click here to give your suggestion. Also, if you have your own web page, we might trade links.



















































































































































































































The term "neoliberal" is being thrown around by people who are against neoliberalism, whatever it is. But the neoliberals themselves are almost totally silent. What's going on here?

Do a web search on "neoliberal" and you'll get plenty of websites where the "neoliberals" are kicked around and bashed and beaten to a pulp.

One web article which tries to introduce a little sanity is What's All This about 'Neoliberalism'?

Another good one is Global Village or Global Pillage?

And of course, for all the hysterical neoliberal-bashing articles, just do a "neoliberal" web search (or "neoliberalism") and you'll get dozens, no -- hundreds of them. 99% of the hits are bashers of the neoliberals. But don't waste your time trying to find anyone who claims to be a neoliberal. They don't seem to exist.

The two links above are not written by neoliberals. Both authors call themselves "liberals" (classical liberals) and show clear leanings toward a libertarian philosophy. This is about as close as we can come to someone who presents a sympathetic presentation of "neoliberalism".

Why isn't there anyone out there who says forthrightly: "I am a neoliberal!" and who defines "neoliberal" for us. I.e., someone who gives us a definition other than "dirty heartless capitalist globalizers who want to trample the poor masses underfoot and destroy everything sacred"?

The purpose of this website is to find that definition.

The two linked articles above are a bit sympathetic to "neoliberalism", but they reject the term as unnecessary, since classical liberalism is all we need, and the neoliberal-bashers are only engaging in some kind of semantic game or trick, using the prefix "neo" as a way to paint their enemy (the "globalizers") as phony liberals or pseudoliberals.

A web search of "I am a neoliberal" fails to turn up anyone who claims to be anything other than a classical liberal. They attach the prefix "neo" in order to distinguish themselves from the modern liberal who is left of center or a moderate socialist.

The purpose of this website is to find a sympathetic definition of "neoliberal" which distinguishes today's neoliberal from the modern Left-leaning liberal, but also from the 19th-century classical liberal. In other words, identify someone new, or a new kind of "liberalism" which answers back to the anti-globalizers.

The neoliberal-bashers see something going on that they don't like. And it's not 19th-century classical liberalism that's bothering them. They see an economic system emerging that is giving them nightmares. Perhaps their fear is similar to that of the Luddites two centuries ago, who saw something sinister in the new machines that were eliminating their jobs.

The term "neoliberal" or "neoliberalism" implies the existence of an ideology or doctrine, not just a trend or a pattern of behavior by certain companies or producers in the market. What is this doctrine? Who is promoting this doctrine and why? An ideologue promotes a doctrine because he believes it is good or right, not just for himself, but for everyone.

Even if a doctrine is mistaken, those who promote it think they are promoting something good for society, for people. They think that at least most people will be made better off if this doctrine is put into practice. They're not thinking, "Our small clique will reap a windfall from this while everyone else will get screwed."

Some free-trade promoters know that their plan is one which will ultimately lead to the greater economic benefit for everyone, but they also know that popular opinion opposes them, because the average person mainly considers his present job or business and is hypersensitive to anything which might look threatening to his position, and he fails to look broadly at all the benefits gained by having all producers be put under the tough discipline of the competitive marketplace.

It is difficult for one person to grasp the huge number of players in the marketplace and perceive all the benefit they produce as a result of the competitive pressures on them. Rather, it is so much easier for one person to see only the limited place he himself plays. And so he devotes his main energies to preserving his own place, while not caring so much to preserve the system of competition.

So the free-trade crusader might be tempted to do an end-run around popular opinion and go directly to the centers of power to achieve the desired goals of opening the markets. And so "secret" sessions are held and deals are hammered out, hidden away from popular view. This would seem to best explain the apparent elitist nature of the globalization pattern and the maneuvers or strategies pursued by the free-traders.

To say that these strategists are conspirators trying to destroy people's standard of living and amass all the wealth into their elitist hands while trampling everyone else underfoot is like saying that the Arabs of the Mideast, especially the militants or extremists, have only the goal of destroying the U.S. (out of envy?) and all "western" values, and murdering everyone who is not Muslim and imposing cruel oppression and suffering onto everyone.

Instead of trying to attribute the most sinister and villainous motives we can imagine to our "enemy", perhaps it is better to identify the real differences of belief, or of thinking, and figure out who is in error. The differences are subtle. If the difference between the opposing camps is that one is a tender innocent victim while the other is a vicious fire-breathing monster, then the two camps really wouldn't exist. Everyone would simply join with the innocent side and help them destroy the monster, and then everything would settle down and all the conflicts would be resolved.

For now, the following is offered as a partial listing of "neoliberal" traits or marks of identification:

--belief in free trade and a global marketplace
--belief in competition, extend competition as far as possible
--merit only, everyone should have to earn their own way, and thus
--little or no sympathy for those who are dysfunctional or noncompetitive
--minimize all costs, including labor cost
--let supply and demand determine all values, including the value of labor
--restrict government to those functions which are social (non-personal, non-individual) and cannot be done privately
--allow the possibility that government might need to expand due to an increase in the legitimate social needs.

This is a tentative list.

Wouldn't a philosophy like this lead to good results, to a better world, because of the benefits of competition and self-responsibility and the increased production of wealth?

Inherent to this philosophy is a negative side, or a side which is unattractive, because it would leave behind those who don't measure up to the standard of competitiveness or efficiency demanded. There is a harshness here, a discipline which may be viewed superficially as cruel. But perhaps this is just a part of the harshness of life which is necessary to produce a better society, or a better overall result, or an overall better world for everyone. "The greatest good for the greatest number." Some are "sacrificed", but the overall result is a better world.

This is essentially a utilitarian philosophy, and thus is not to be confused with Objectivism and libertarianism, which fanatically reject utilitarianism and any notion of sacrifice or altruism.

It contradicts liberalism, which obsesses on "comforting the afflicted and afflicting the comfortable" even when this ends up making both worse off, because liberalism/Left-wingism cares more about symbolism and class warfare than results.

And it contradicts American conservatism, because it places a higher priority on making the world better off than on making America better off. When/if these ever conflict, the world as a whole is more important.

If you have some ideas to suggest about the meaning of "neoliberalism" you may have it posted in this web page (click here).

























































































































































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ignore this space