Bob ask: And where were they married? What date?

".....26 day of July"

     Bob ask: What year?

"....Well, I've got it in the old Bible, but I don't have the Bible.  Your Daddy has that.  All the records, when every child, and everything else."

     Bob ask: This was after the Civil War when all this happened?

"Oh yes, they didn't get married until after the Civil War. That's when Papa left wherever he was and come to Texas."

     Bob ask: What happened after this? Where did they go next?

"...They went to Colorado and he got in good health again and went back to Texas.  He thought he was in good health. And he preached there all the time you know.  So he went back and he wasn't there but awhile, I don't know how long, till he lost his health again and he had to come back, that time he stayed down there till he thought he'd die before they could get out here. Moved in wagons, you know and another man come with them to help bury him if he died.  And my oldest brother was sick to till they didn't think he'd live.  He was a little kid and had chills and fever till he was just nothin but bones.  They thought they'd have to bury them both on the way.  And they come that time to up here to Califax, New Mexico, right this side of Colorado border you know.  He stayed 3 or 4 years here then he got to feeling fine and went back (to Texas) again and when he got sick that time they moved back and never did go back.  But his health never was very good anymore after that.  He always was a carpenter by trade so he worked.  He didn't believe in taking money for his church work."

     Bob ask: Was he a minister?

"Yes"

     Bob ask: What demonination?

"Baptist. He didn't believe in taking peoples money for his preaching. He worked for a living and then on Sunday he preached."

     Bob ask: Very commendable. When did you enter into this?
Your birth?

"Well, 1885.  He was a carpenter over here on side of Rudiosa on Bonita Creek.  They called it Bonita then.  There was Bonita, Rudiosa, Colinder (?), all them places you know."

     Bob ask: How many children did your parents have?

"They had 12."

     Bob ask: And what order are you?

"Oh, I was, well there's 3, no 2 younger than me."

     Bob ask: Can you name them for us?

" There's Ellen and Harvey, Ellen's right next to me and Harvey's the last child."

     Bob ask: Could you name all 12 so we can have them on record?

" Well, lets see.  There was Martha. I don't know them of course they was grown before. I knew them, seem them was all. There was Martha and Mary, then Jim and Ed and Lue, Charlie, Doc and me and Ellen and Harvey.  Doc's name was Richmond but then they never did call him that.  They called him Doc after Doc. He never was called by his name."

     Bob ask:  What do you remember of your early life?

"Well, I grew up here at Lake Valley and Hillsboro.  Hillsboro was the county seat of _______County and it was a mining town. Then 9 miles further up the same big canyon in the mountains was called Aperchie (?). One was Kingston and that was a silver mining town.  Pretty big town too.  Lots of timber up there. So, there was a outfit come in and put up a saw mill there.  My father was the carpenter and he put up that sawmill.  When they moved out here tho they stopped up here at Hot Springs. I told you I didn't know how they crossed the river or nothing but I know they stopped at Hot Springs.  The Indians used that as a watering hole.  They didn't use the water out of the river it seems like and they dug out in that hot water just a place they could dip water up for their horses and things.  So, my folks dug it out deep enough to all get a bath in that hot water.  Then they filled up their jugs and kegs and things and then we went way up on top of that mesa going towards Hilsboro.  We camped way off from the road, so the Indians wouldn't find us.  Then we lived there in Hillsboro.  The first school I went to was Hillsboro.  And then after that one of my brothers, he got to runing in Miming when he was 16. He never did make anything but a

miner out of him.  The oldest brother could look at a piece of rock and he'd tell you what country it come from if he'd ever been there.  Anyhow they bought a place then. A cow ranch between Lake Valley and Hillsboro.  That was 18 miles apart.  Lake Valley was another mining town.  So they bought that ranch and then papa homesteaded.  We lived there then till I was 16.  Then we moved here to Garfield.___________ We lived there then till after I was married and Clarence was born, right there at same place where I was married."

     Bob ask:  Can you tell us your first meeting with granddad?

"Oh yeah, but I don't like that."  (She laughed)

     Bob ask: Well how about telling us about it?

"Well, he came from Mason County, Texas out here."

     Bob ask: What was he doing, ranching?

"He was just a cowboy".

     Bob said: Just a cowboy?

"These people he knew always come and drove stock through.  Three wagons of them. Driving cattle and horses.  They finally sold all the cattle. They traveled to slow. So, they go way down in here the other side of El Paso and it come up a cold rain on them. Your Granddad got a bad cold and I guess he had pneominia or something.  Anyhow they didn't think he'd live and they were 60 miles from where they could get a doctor.  So Mr. Jones made them take the best horse they had and he sent one of his men to El Paso to get a Doctor.  He nearly killed the horse.  They had to shoot him. Never was worth nothing.  Run it to death. And they got a doctor back up there.  Your granddad couldn't talk. He lost his voice. The whole pallett of his mouth was eat up."

     Bob ask: From the fever?

"Well from the sickness and he got, he had chronical throat trouble or something anyhow. It was sort of like sinus or something. All of it just come out so they couldn't understand him if he tried to talk.  Well they stayed down there and got as far as El Paso where they could stay there.  Course ElPaso wasn't there. They called that Eagle Pass.  Few little abode shacks where old Mexican people lived.  Then they came on to Lake Valley and had to go 18 miles then you see on the highway to Hillsboro. Stage coach's run then. Well, we seen wagons, covered wagons, come by and of course I was a great big girl 16 years old. They

had a girl about that age,I thought she was about that age. Well, they camped there and watered their teams and shod some horses.  So, they were around there quite a little while. And that oldest girl and me, we got to chumming around pretty good."

" She went to the wagon for something and got up in the wagon.  I got up on the brake beam of the wagon and I was still talking to her.  I looked down and there was your granddad laying there in bed and he eyes, oh, he was just like these skeltons you look at. It was the scarest sight I'd ever seen and his eyes were great big. My, I got off that brake beam.  I sure didn't go around that wagon anymore."

     Bob ask: How old was he then?

"Well, I don't know.  He was 26 when we married."

     Bob ask: How long was your courtship?

"Well, we was engaged nearly 3 years.  That was in 96 and we married in 1904."

     Bob ask:  What was your next experience with granddad?

"Well, we was fixin' to move from up here at Lake Valley cause of the drough and we had to move the cattle.  So, they brought the cattle here in the SanDrais Mountains.  Had to move to rye ground and it was on 4th of July.  We had a big 4th of July celebration. They had my granddad (Samuel Clark ?) always to make the talks at these celebrations. He told them he'd always make the talk if they'd let him have a confederate flag.  So, I made him a flag. He had both flags, you know.  So, he made the talk and I'd see him (Charlie) around there but you couldn't understand anything he said. Of course none of us girls wanted to meet him.  My brother Charley had been working with the cattle outfil and got pretty well acquainted with him.  So he came around and ask me if I'd get acquainted with one of his friends and I'd seen him talking to this fellow and I told him no.  I said I'm tired, I've danced all night.  I don't want to meet him."

"There was 6 of us girls all dressed alike.  We had a program that day and we all dressed alike. And I'd see him looking at us and he didn't know one from the other.  About midnight that night my sister-in-law come to me.  She said come with me out to the barbeque pit and the table.  There's a fellow just got here and he ain't had nothin' to eat.  She said I don't want to go out there by myself.  So, I went with her.  We got out there and cut some cake and fixed some coffee and my brother called him, and they held me and whispered to me.  I didn't know nothing he was

saying hardly.  I could tell you when he said hello or howdy do or something like that.  I knew what he said.  So, I was so bashful I didn't want to talk to him.  We had a neighbor boy, papa didn't think he was very good.  He'd been caught in rough crowds so we didn't associate with them kind of people.  And he walked up there.  They went off and left me out there with them after they introduced us.  So, I knew then that he'd ask me to dance the next dance cause that would be what he would do, you know.  So, I thought I'll get away from him someway and thats when the neighbor boy walked up and we just talked and laughed and after awhile he (Charlie) got tickled about something we was talking about that happened and he go to laughing and coughing and he run backwards and fell in the barbeque pit.  There was colds in there and Charley (brother) had to help him out."

"  We went back to the platform and of course I had to dance with him.  So as soon as we got through dancing I slipped out and I got right in that bunch of girls that was dressed just like me. And they all seen me trying to get away from him, you know.  No body didn't want to meet him.  So, he'd come around looking at us from the front and we'd just be laughing and talking to each other, we'd never seen him before and then he'd go to our backs and I never wore that dress after that night. "

"My brothers hauled the lumber from Lake Vally out there and built that platform and we had dishes the hardware store furnished us to have for the meals out there.  We had enough for 300 to eat.  Baked 80 loaves of light bread, course you didn't buy bread them days.  We baked that bread ourselves.  80 loaves we had to bake for that and that wasn't enough.  And made bisquits then. Had these great big dutch ovens.  Had the men to make them.  The dutch ovens and bread.  The next morning we couldn't leave you see till they tore up all that platform and loaded that lumber and everything so we had to stay around there and Charlie stayed around too.  Then he knew me of course.  I stayed busy with the dishes and everthing.  Helping to get the dishes washed up and put back.  I kept myself real busy.  He stayed there and helped load the lumber and everything and when we got ready to go he led his horse around close to where we were at and he said,"Well, I hope I'll be seeing you in a few days." I said, "If I never see you again it'll be soon enough."  So we left and went on home."

"About the third day, it was raining, drury and rainy.  There was Al and myself and the Woody sister and my neice, she was older than I was, and we just had the biggest time.  Everytime we saw anyone coming we all clowned.  I seen him coming and they knew the way I looked, I turned around and quit looking out, that I seen somebody.  He had on that same shirt it looked like that he had on that day and I knew it was him.  I didn't want to see him no more."

"So, we all beat it to the kitchen.  All us girls and the sister Woody.  We got in the kitchen and he came in and sat in the front room with Mama and Papa.  After awhile my brother came in there and said you got company, get in there.  I said no, we gonna be busy in here, we can't go in there.  And then he'd get ashamed and he'd go back and talk in there.  Directly he come in the kitchen and there Charlie was stooped way down hiding behind him. Followed him in.  My married sister, she had a matches ----- and she'd name each one of us you know, each match.  See which one was gonna get him."

"There was a doorway from the kitchen into the bedroom that was clear off from the front room you know.  When I seen him stooping behind my brother I ducked into that bedroom.  Ellen seen me and she come in and we shut the door, left my neice and my widowed sister in there.  He come on in and he knew we was hid somewhere and they talked and laughed.  There was my sister Bernadine matches and he'd just butt right in and talk you know, nobody could understand him hardly, he was awlful to teach.  So directly he came to that door and knocked on the door, nobody answered. He said if you folks don't open this door I'm gonna come in.  We still kept the door shut, you know.  We finally crawled out through a winder and went to the cellar.  He come in and didn't find us, went to the front room and we wasn't in there so he came out and went all around the place hunting us, looking for us. There was a trail went down the hill and the cellar was back up under the hill and we was in that and we was shut up in there and he couldn't get in.  We stayed in there till Mama made us come out.  By that time Charlie's brother had come, his half brother and I thought that was the uglest man I had ever seen on earth."

"He come in the front room and all the rest of us young folks was in the kitchen.  Directly mama came in there and said, We was fixin to go to the grape yard".  Grape vine patch, gonna gather grapes.  Mama came in and said your not gonna go.  Your not a goin' and leave that man in there.  Some of you have got to go in there and ask that man along too.  Well, none of them would do it.  They always put everything on me.  And Charlie was there and he didn't tell us he was any kin to him.  I said I don't even know his name.  I thought they said Taylor. His name was Caylor, you know.  So, finally they made me go in there.  I went in and my father introduced me and I thought he said Taylor too.  So, I ask him if he wanted to go to the vinyard with us.  So, course he got up and everywhere I went he went with me.  Oh, he was ugly. So, I got up there and I kept trying to get away from him.  I'd pick in the biggest bunch picking and he'd pick there too and put the grapes in my basket.  Directly I looked over and Charlie was behind a great big grape vine just laughing watching me try to get away from him.  My widowed sister walked with him (Charlie)

up to the grape patch.  So, he was watching me, laughing and making fun of me and it made me so mad I just felt like running off and hiding somewhere and I couldn't get away without them seeing me."

"So, finally when we got our baskets full and started back to the the house, well, Charlie walked up and caught ahold of my arm. Course I was glad of that then.  We got to the house and stayed there a little while and the man that my oldest sister married, my widowed sister, that was Nelson, he come.  They was always coming them cowboys, on Sunday, you know.  I kept trying to get my neice to go with us and tried to get Harold (?) with us cause we chummed together all the time and we was gonna run away.  We got a way down in the canyon and here comes Nelson. He said Wait, said my sweetheart wanted to go with me and there come Charlie out with my mother's bonnet on.  We got down there and we had a big watermelon patch down there and he was gonna take watermelon back. It was a long way to carry them.  He brought a towsack and he put as many watermelon in that towsack as he could lift.  I felt sorry for anybody trying to carry that big load.  Directly my sister kept saying that's to many for you to carry.  Let me have one and she called him Mr. Johnson.  He said quit calling me Mr. Johnson, just call me brother Charlie.  Oh, that made me so mad.  Then his horse run off and he said he'd have to go get him directly and she said well, maybe we'd better do it.  Sister went out and the old horse run off and he said, you have to talk to him like a man.  I said, well dow does a man talk.  He said "cuss him of course".  So after that he come every week or two and I couldn't get rid of him.  Had to marry to get rid of him."

     Bob ask: What was your mother and father's full name?

"Papa's name was John Thomas Clark.  Mama's was Charity Ann Hightower."

     Bob ask: Do you know the date of your mother's birthday?

"27 of February, but I don't know what year."

     Bob ask: Do you have an approximate idea?

"I know she died in 1931. Yeah, the 15th of January 31.  And she would have been 82 if she went to the 27th of February.  You can figure that out."

     Bob ask: How about your father?

"My father died in 21 and he was 82 the 28th of November before. His birthday was 28 November and your granddaddy, my husband, birth was 18 November.  He died the 8th day of August."

     Bob ask: My granddaddy?

"Yeah, and he would have been 76 on 18 November."

     Bob ask: Where did you marry granddad?

"Garfield."

     Bob ask: From there where did you go?

"We stayed at Garfield. Lived there till 1905 then went to Douglas, Arizona and lived there till that fall and we come to the Charicowa Mts, stayed there awhile and then homesteaded out there.  Till our home burned up.  That was in 1913, the home burned down.  Then we went back over in the Corn, New Mexico, Old Mexico, Mexico right in the corner.  Lived there for 18 years. That is where Jigs was born when we lived in the Corn."

     Bob ask: Where was Clarence born?

" Up here where we was married. Up here at Garfield."

     Bob ask: And then Dad (Charles Rollin)?

"He was born in Grant County, was then. It's Hildago now.  No, that's Grant isn't it? Silvernite, thats in Grant county. He
was born there. Jigs was born in Lordsburg when we lived on the border.  We stayed out there till 24 and we moved here to Rye Ground and stayed here 2 years."

     Bob ask: There was still quite a few battles of spanish wasn't there?

"Over there, there was.  That was a revolution going on when we lived out there.  It started in 1911.  We went over there after my house burned in 13.  House burned on memorial day, 1913."

     Bob ask: Did you have any problems there. Anything outstanding?

"Oh, there was lots of deferadating back and forth, white people deferdating in Mexico, Mexico deferdating over there.  Old Poncho Villa's outfit.  The others didn't bother anything.  They were very nice.  That old Poncho Villa, that was a dirty fellow, now they got him a hero.  Hear people talk."

     Bob ask:  This was in what year?  You lived here in Mesilla Park how long?

"Oh, we come down here in 1926 when we come back for out there. Lived at Anthony awhile and came up here."

     Bob ask: How long has Granddad been a peace officer?

"About 30 some years. Yah, about 30 some years."

     Bob ask: Where all was he peace officer?

"Out on border and here.  Everywhere we been after we lived on the border. Well, let's see, that was in 1913 that we went out there and he went to work then out there.  He was a cattle _____. He carried commission for officer anywhere in the state of New Mexico"



Lilly corrected the statement regading El Paso being Eagle Pass when Charlie came.  El Paso was here and Eagle Pass was an earlier date.



LILLIAN MAE CLARK JOHNSON - born 4-6-1885 Lincoln County, New Mexico.  Died 7-23-1967 Los Cruces, New Mexico.  Parents John Thomas Clark and Charity Hightower.  Married Charles Johnson 4-20-1903 in Dery, Sierra County, New Mexico. (Marriage license in possession of King Johnson, her grandson)