Date:
Sat, 5 Sep 1998 08:10:04 -0700 (PDT)
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-------------- BEGIN heavenly-c.v001.n910 --------------
001 - Laurin McNiff <englishpat - Re: Titanic
002 - "E. Jean Guerin" <orson@v - Hypothermia is family
entertainment?
003 - "E. Jean Guerin" <orson@v - Re: Kate Titanic Winslet
004 - mailcall <mailcall@bluema - "Our Movie" (was Re: Kate Titanic
Winslet)
005 - nbk94@xs4all.nl (jeroen) - Re: Kate Titanic Winslet
006 - "Jose Antonio Abad Trillo - Re: HC in Mexico
--------------- MESSAGE heavenly-c.v001.n910.1 ---------------
From: Laurin McNiff <englishpatient@home.com>
Subject: Re: Titanic
Date: Fri, 04 Sep 1998 11:54:46 -0700
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References: <199809040427.VAA19107@lists1.best.com>
<199809040749.AAA21925@lists1.best.com>
> Or they could just ask the child to close his or her eyes
> for those few seconds..
I agree, that would be the way I would go about "editing" it. However, I
was merely addressing the other reasons why someone else might have felt
it neccasary.
Regards,
Laurin
--------------- MESSAGE heavenly-c.v001.n910.2 ---------------
From: "E. Jean Guerin" <orson@videotron.ca>
Subject: Hypothermia is family entertainment?
Date: Fri, 04 Sep 1998 13:33:01 -0400
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
>11-12 year old child
>>hasn't seen the film and would like to but their parents object to the
>>scenes in question?
Somehow subjecting the child to the sight of hundreds of people
drowning
and freezing to death is ok but a subtly photographed love scene (where
the only thing exposed should be familiar to a child as a source of
food
anyway) is bad?
And what about that guy bouncing off the propellor?
The film does have a rating you know.
(:^)]
--------------- MESSAGE heavenly-c.v001.n910.3 ---------------
From: "E. Jean Guerin" <orson@videotron.ca>
Subject: Re: Kate Titanic Winslet
Date: Fri, 04 Sep 1998 13:23:25 -0400
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
jeroen wrote:
>>And more people will see HC after she's worked with Ahrrrnuld.
>
>Frankly, i don't think i'd want those people to see 'our' movie.
So you are saying that people with populist tastes should not expand
their horizons....
That's a slap in the face of those newer list members who wrote in
saying
they liked Titanic and ended up LOVING HC.
I like some Arnie movies. Peter likes some Arnie movies. Kate likes
some
Arnie movies.
Sometimes I like popcorn and sometimes I feel like real meat.
So what's this crap about not wanting AS fans watching (*ahem*) "our"
movie, uh?
I guess you don't want me watching HC anymore? After all, back in 1984,
I
went to see Terminator for a lark and came back telling everybody the
director would one day be as big as Spielberg.
The same attitude bugged me when I was excited about going town to NZ
and
work with the "genius behind BRAINDEAD".
What is it about some armchair film directors that they get snottier
and
more possessive than the ones actually involved in the process?
(:^)]
--------------- MESSAGE heavenly-c.v001.n910.4 ---------------
From: mailcall <mailcall@bluemarble.net>
Subject: "Our Movie" (was Re: Kate Titanic Winslet)
Date: Fri, 4 Sep 1998 13:46:15 -0500 (EST)
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII
In-Reply-To: <199809041736.KAA10875@lists1.best.com>
> >>And more people will see HC after she's worked with Ahrrrnuld.
> >Frankly, i don't think i'd want those people to see 'our' movie.
think of it this way; we're basically talking about a film that was made
about two real people who genuinely believed they were above the rest of
humanity. they honestly thought themselves superior in every possible
way.
in real life this probably translated to a kind of snobbish taste in
music,
art, and film. some things were worthy of consideration by those who
appreciate the 4th world, and some things just were not.
you hear pauline say a little smugly in the film "only about ten people
have it" (the ability to appreciate the 4th world). what is often
forgotten
is that dr. medlicott specifically asked them about this, and they
replied
that they'd thought things over after writing that, and decided that
there
probably are a lot more than ten. they must have based the "ten people"
statement on their observation of people in the creative professions--
composers, singers, actors, etc.--who conveyed some sense of the 4th
world
in their work. as they went along they'd have found plenty of others.
heck, you don't know who can appreciate the 4th world. my dad is a very
ordinary rural type but he's got a sense of beauty that would surprise
you
and he's very fond of opera :) (he also thinks the bible's a load of
bunkum!)
so let's not throw out the cushion with the bathwater (from the bathtub
at
ilam) maybe being exposed to hc will awaken something in these arnold
fans.
my husband likes the occasional arnold movie and he's the most
frightfully
romantic person i've iver mit.
--==** melanthe alexian **==--
...she just slipped away...
--------------- MESSAGE heavenly-c.v001.n910.5 ---------------
From: nbk94@xs4all.nl (jeroen)
Subject: Re: Kate Titanic Winslet
Date: Fri, 04 Sep 1998 21:16:28 GMT
MIME-Version: 1.0
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References: <199809041736.KAA10875@lists1.best.com>
In-Reply-To: <199809041736.KAA10875@lists1.best.com>
On Fri, 04 Sep 1998 13:23:25 -0400, "E. Jean Guerin"
<orson@videotron.ca> wrote:
>jeroen wrote:
>
>>>And more people will see HC after she's worked with Ahrrrnuld.
>>
>>Frankly, i don't think i'd want those people to see 'our' movie.
>
>So you are saying that people with populist tastes should not expand
>their horizons....
No, but you knew that didn't you?
I have quite a populist taste myself. Take a look at my movie
collection, you'll find populist classics such as MY GIRL, CONTACT,
THE FIFTH ELEMENT, MARS ATTACKS, BACK TO THE FUTURE, UNCLE BUCK, THE
WIZARD OF OZ etc etc. I love 'm all.
All i'm saying is that i hate arnold and every movie he's ever done.
The guy and his work represent everything that's bad about movies.
And i find the thought of watching HC with a bunch of hardcore arnold
fans quite frightening to say the least.
To be honest, my post was partly meant as a joke, but i'm tired of
using those damn smilies everywhere for the humour impaired.
>That's a slap in the face of those newer list members who wrote in
saying
>they liked Titanic and ended up LOVING HC.
Don't get me started on TITANIC.
Besides who are you to judge me? You said some pretty nasty things
about NBK and the people who like that film.
>I like some Arnie movies. Peter likes some Arnie movies. Kate likes
some
>Arnie movies.
Why should i care what other people think of arnold?
Didn't kate once say she thinks oliver stone is a genius? Better go
kill yourself jean.
>So what's this crap about not wanting AS fans watching (*ahem*) "our"
>movie, uh?
Chill out man. I was just saying how *i* feel about arnold fans
seeing HC. Sorry if you're offended.
>I guess you don't want me watching HC anymore? After all, back in
1984, I
>went to see Terminator for a lark and came back telling everybody the
>director would one day be as big as Spielberg.
Ha, and that's a compliment?
>What is it about some armchair film directors that they get snottier
and
>more possessive than the ones actually involved in the process?
Maybe because they are the people who actually own the films and the
people who make them. Think about it, i'm paying your salary.
Btw you're fired.
--
jeroen -- the netherlands -- http://www.xs4all.nl/~nbk94
aLL OVER ME hEAVENLY CREATURES jUDE lEON nBK
--------------- MESSAGE heavenly-c.v001.n910.6 ---------------
From: "Jose Antonio Abad Trillo" <jabad@softtek.com>
Subject: Re: HC in Mexico
Date: Sat, 05 Sep 1998 04:02:04 -0500
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References: <199809031433.HAA24035@lists1.best.com>
<199809031631.JAA24658@lists1.best.com>
jeroen wrote:
>
> On Thu, 03 Sep 1998 10:36:22 -0400, "E. Jean Guerin"
> <orson@videotron.ca> wrote:
>
> >I met with a journalist from Mexico who comes to the Montreal World
Film
> >Festival (currently on 'til sunday). He told me that HC was finally
> >released in Mexico just a couple of months ago. At the top of their
> >advertising is- you guessed it- "Starring Kate Winslet of the
TITANIC".
>
> Hmm, is this good or bad?
>
> I would have prefered TITANIC ads saying 'starring kate winslet from
> HC'. Or even better, 'starring kate winslet who played mel lynskey's
> friend in HC' ;)
>
> --
> jeroen -- the netherlands -- http://www.xs4all.nl/~nbk94
> aLL OVER ME hEAVENLY CREATURES jUDE lEON nBK
Hello dearest creatures:
Let me afford my two cents in this one. I'm from Mexico, and I'm a
little upset with the Hollywood-movie-like-goodie. What I mean is the
fact that here (and I guess in many other countries) only if you make a
blockbuster-hollywood-kind-of-movie you have success and then all your
work is released. Before Titanic, here in Mexico, they never showed any
work from kate but Hamlet. After titanic, now you can find in the
blockbuster Jude, HC, and even a kid in king arthurs... As a fan of HC,
I'm glad more people can see it but as I mentioned in a previous post, I
found that most of the Mexicans did not like it.
Other anoying thing is that here they did not released the ever after
movie.
I do agree with Jeroen about that I would like better the fact that Kate
should be appreciated first from HC rather than from Titanic.
Also (last one) because most of people that I asked about HC (I made a
survey) didn't like it, I became some kind of jelaous about it. I guess
I feel that it is not for everyone... "it's so sad they cannot
appreciate our genious.."
I guess that almost the same thing will occur with Liv Tyler after
Armageddon. Now they are exploding her face but before Armageddon only
a few knew her not so bad but not so good work. (No possible point of
comparison with Kate or Mel) :)
Thanks for reading
Jose Antonio
--
------------------------------------------------------
|
|
| Cuanto mas grande la cabeza, mas fuerte la jaqueca. |
| The bigger the head, the bigger the headache |
------------------------------------------------------
--------------- END heavenly-c.v001.n910 ---------------
Date:
Sun, 6 Sep 1998 01:49:22 -0700 (PDT)
From:
heavenly-c-errors@lists.best.com Add to Address Book
Subject:
Digest heavenly-c.v001.n911
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To:
heavenly-c@lists.best.com
-------------- BEGIN heavenly-c.v001.n911 --------------
001 - "E. Jean Guerin" <orson@v - Re: Kate Titanic Winslet
002 - Laurin McNiff <englishpat - Re: Kate Titanic Winslet
003 - nbk94@xs4all.nl (jeroen) - Re: Kate Titanic Winslet
004 - nbk94@xs4all.nl (jeroen) - Re: Kate Titanic Winslet
005 - LuvleeNine@aol.com - HC
006 - Laurin McNiff <englishpat - Re: Kate Titanic Winslet
007 - "E. Jean Guerin" <orson@v - Re: Kate Titanic Winslet
008 - "E. Jean Guerin" <orson@v - Re:Arnie's diet tips
009 - "E. Jean Guerin" <orson@v - Fight? This is all out War!!
(kidding!)
010 - Bettina.Hahn@t-online.de - Titanic 2?
--------------- MESSAGE heavenly-c.v001.n911.1 ---------------
From: "E. Jean Guerin" <orson@videotron.ca>
Subject: Re: Kate Titanic Winslet
Date: Sat, 05 Sep 1998 14:22:19 -0400
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
jeroen wrote:
>All i'm saying is that i hate arnold and every movie he's ever done.
I'm OK with your tastes. I'm just not OK with value judgement.
There is a difference between saying "I don't like it!" and "It's
crap!".
And I'm definitely not OK with "It's crap and everybody who likes this
is
a lesser human being" attitudes.
>The guy and his work represent everything that's bad about movies.
Like what? The fact that Arnold has been selctive enough in his career
to
hook up with GOOD directors? I would've agreed with you back in the
days
of CONAN (at which point his career was a bit of a joke).
>Besides who are you to judge me? You said some pretty nasty things
>about NBK and the people who like that film.
I get disturbed by people who watch ANY film obsessively and miss the
point.
I respect your opinion of NBK as it has been eloquently defended. If
anything, you've proved that I can't generalize a movie's audience. I
still feel creepy by those who watch NBK as wish fulfillment.
For example, I liked watching HENRY PORTRAIT OF A SERIAL KILLER but I
get
creeped out by the ones who watch it over and over and like it too
much.
The same goes for ERASERHEAD, anything by Dario Argento and people who
watch Peter's BRAINDEAD for the gore aspect.
Heck! I'd get creeped out if I met someone who liked HC and gave me the
feeling she wanted to emulate Pauline's actions. I've said so in this
list before.
>Didn't kate once say she thinks oliver stone is a genius? Better go
>kill yourself jean.
I don't kill myself (or others) over tastes dude. They're only movies.
Besides. I too think Stone's a genius- albeit an evil genius. I don't
agree with what he does with his gift but I still think he is a genius.
>>So what's this crap about not wanting AS fans watching (*ahem*) "our"
>>movie, uh?
>
>Chill out man. I was just saying how *i* feel about arnold fans
>seeing HC. Sorry if you're offended.
The wording with the word *I* is better.
HC is a movie I worked on. It's not *my* movie nor is it *yours*.
I found the possessive *our* linked with a general judgement as to who
should be allowed to experience HC to be elitist and offensive.
HC belongs to all who embrace it. No one person can lay claim to it.
Even Peter shares credit with Fran.
>>I guess you don't want me watching HC anymore? After all, back in
1984, I
>>went to see Terminator for a lark and came back telling everybody the
>>director would one day be as big as Spielberg.
>
>Ha, and that's a compliment?
It sure is! Besides, if you read closely you'll see I wrote "big". Not
"good", "brilliant". I was saying that if the guy can make AS look good
like he did, he would one day climb to the top of the Box-Office. Back
in
1984 Spielberg was King of the Box-Office and now Cameron is.
It's kinda like John Lennon said the Beatles were "bigger" than Jesus
and
people thought he meant "better".
>>What is it about some armchair film directors that they get snottier
and
>>more possessive than the ones actually involved in the process?
>
>Maybe because they are the people who actually own the films and the
>people who make them. Think about it, i'm paying your salary.
You're just paying PART of it. I'll be more than happy to reimburse
your
cut of my salary but they don't issue currency under a penny.
>Btw you're fired.
Buying a movie ticket or a copy of the film makes you a shareholder,
not
the CEO. You decision to fire me has to be supported by the other
millions of people worldwide who have seen me in something.
(:^)]
--------------- MESSAGE heavenly-c.v001.n911.2 ---------------
From: Laurin McNiff <englishpatient@home.com>
Subject: Re: Kate Titanic Winslet
Date: Sat, 05 Sep 1998 17:59:29 -0700
MIME-Version: 1.0
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References: <199809051821.LAA01149@lists1.best.com>
My my, I leave my email alone for a day and look what happens! You can't
fire Jean, while he may be "the most hideous man alive" he just signed
with an agent.
Frankly, I've seen alot of opinions go through and around the list that
I chose not to comment on, but maybe now is a good time? HC is a
fantastic movie, that's what we all share in common. If it were not for
HC, 75% of us wouldn't even know of each others' existence, and that's
the truth. But, because someone had a big heart and created this awesome
mailing list-here we are. And, personally speaking, through the smoke
and flames, I've had a damn good time. Why? Because not only am I
sharing a similiar film love, but we can all (most of us) debate on
related, and sometimes NON related topics firmly without declaring war.
HC doesn't belong to one person, in fact, it was created to share with
the world-and share it has. It's a fantastic piece of film making that
many of us enjoy and can never watch enough. That's fine, but to claim
it and deny others' enjoyment? That's not right. We're all rational
people on this list correct? At least I would love to think so:) So, why
not end this fight, before it starts up? And hey, Jean can't be fired,
he just got settled in:)
Regards,
Laurin
$.02
--------------- MESSAGE heavenly-c.v001.n911.3 ---------------
From: nbk94@xs4all.nl (jeroen)
Subject: Re: Kate Titanic Winslet
Date: Sat, 05 Sep 1998 22:35:03 GMT
MIME-Version: 1.0
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References: <199809051821.LAA01149@lists1.best.com>
<199809052113.OAA00279@lists1.best.com>
In-Reply-To: <199809052113.OAA00279@lists1.best.com>
On Sat, 05 Sep 1998 17:59:29 -0700, Laurin McNiff
<englishpatient@home.com> wrote:
>HC doesn't belong to one person, in fact, it was created to share with
>the world-and share it has. It's a fantastic piece of film making that
>many of us enjoy and can never watch enough. That's fine, but to claim
>it and deny others' enjoyment? That's not right. We're all rational
>people on this list correct? At least I would love to think so:) So,
why
>not end this fight, before it starts up?
Fight? Come on, this isn't a fight, just a healthy discussion. I'm
sure jean feels the same way.
>And hey, Jean can't be fired, he just got settled in:)
That was a joke. I've said it before, but now it's official: no more
lame smilies in my posts.
Besides, i'm an idiot, everybody who knows me in real life knows not
to take a word i say seriously. I advice the the people on this list
to do the same.
--
jeroen -- the netherlands -- http://www.xs4all.nl/~nbk94
aLL OVER ME hEAVENLY CREATURES jUDE lEON nBK
--------------- MESSAGE heavenly-c.v001.n911.4 ---------------
From: nbk94@xs4all.nl (jeroen)
Subject: Re: Kate Titanic Winslet
Date: Sat, 05 Sep 1998 22:35:03 GMT
MIME-Version: 1.0
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Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit
References: <199809051821.LAA01149@lists1.best.com>
In-Reply-To: <199809051821.LAA01149@lists1.best.com>
On Sat, 05 Sep 1998 14:22:19 -0400, "E. Jean Guerin"
<orson@videotron.ca> wrote:
>>The guy and his work represent everything that's bad about movies.
>
>Like what? The fact that Arnold has been selctive enough in his career
to
>hook up with GOOD directors? I would've agreed with you back in the
days
>of CONAN (at which point his career was a bit of a joke).
The fact that he can't act and still is one of the biggest stars out
there. Actually this says more about his fans than about the man
himself, but heck, that was my point to begin with. I don't want
those people judging MY MOVIE! Oops sorry.
And then there's the 'kate must loose weight to play his wife' thing
which i find really disgusting.
>HC is a movie I worked on. It's not *my* movie nor is it *yours*.
Sure it isn't. Still i'm sure i'm not the only person on this list
who feels like this. I've read quite a lot of messages from people
saying they showed HC to friends only to learn that they don't like
it, or they think it's weird or whatever. My personal experience is
more or less the same, i've showed the film and handed out copies to
at least 15 people, and only 2 of them liked it, the rest HATED it.
It's only natural for one to become a little protective and selective
after that.
>>>I guess you don't want me watching HC anymore? After all, back in
1984, I
>>>went to see Terminator for a lark and came back telling everybody
the
>>>director would one day be as big as Spielberg.
>>
>>Ha, and that's a compliment?
>
>It sure is! Besides, if you read closely you'll see I wrote "big". Not
I can read. I meant to say that big in the $pielberg way really isn't
a good thing. Look at all those 'big' directors, most of 'm release
one lame movie after another.
Hell even the mighty oliver stone is casting the hideous puff daddy
for his new flick.
Thank god for indy film makers.
--
jeroen -- the netherlands -- http://www.xs4all.nl/~nbk94
aLL OVER ME hEAVENLY CREATURES jUDE lEON nBK
--------------- MESSAGE heavenly-c.v001.n911.5 ---------------
From: LuvleeNine@aol.com
Subject: HC
Date: Sat, 5 Sep 1998 19:25:11 EDT
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
Darling Creatures-
May I take the time out of this *disagreement* we're having to say
how much
I enjoy being on this list, and how I love to ready your posts, and
everything
you say? =)
*giggle* Ok... carry on.
*LUV9*
~Nasrin~
--------------- MESSAGE heavenly-c.v001.n911.6 ---------------
From: Laurin McNiff <englishpatient@home.com>
Subject: Re: Kate Titanic Winslet
Date: Sat, 05 Sep 1998 23:37:52 -0700
MIME-Version: 1.0
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Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
References: <199809051821.LAA01149@lists1.best.com>
<199809052113.OAA00279@lists1.best.com>
<199809052237.PAA06393@lists1.best.com>
> That was a joke. I've said it before, but now it's official: no more
> lame smilies in my posts.
The same goes for me, only no lame insults in my posts. I was joking as
well. No one called you an idiot either, so why the self insult?
Obviously people aren't always going to take things as you might like,
hell, tons of things I've said have been "taken the wrong way". So,
lighten up.
Regards,
Laurin
--------------- MESSAGE heavenly-c.v001.n911.7 ---------------
From: "E. Jean Guerin" <orson@videotron.ca>
Subject: Re: Kate Titanic Winslet
Date: Sun, 06 Sep 1998 01:38:00 -0400
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
jeroen wrote:
>I meant to say that big in the $pielberg way really isn't
>a good thing.
I guess people have forgotten the days when Spielberg was the underdog
who questionned why stars got million dollar salaries while the
filmmakers were getting smaller and smaller budgets to work with.
People have also forgotten when he passed on projects he was pelted
with
to other directors needing a break. After "E.T." he got every project
involving some critter with a wire up the kazoo in H'wood. He became
producer on them and passed them on to Joe Dante, Robert Zemeckis etc.
etc. while he went out to make Beautiful films like "The Color Purple"
and "Empire of the Sun".
And now he's proving the old adage that "filmmakers make their best
work
after age fifty" with "Saving Private Ryan"
It's too easy to resent success. Often I find that people who take that
route often only end up displaying their ignorance. Like the reviewer
in
Montreal who dismissed Jackie Chan as "some chinese VanDamme wannabe".
That's what I like about the shift in my film journalism jobs, I do
more
"background" pieces than out and out reviews. It takes more research
but
it also makes for a meatier read.
Like the old saying goes "opinions are like assholes, everyone has
one".
I'd rather read the biography of a filmmaker over a collection of
Pauline
Kael reviews anyday.
As for Arnie,people often forget that the hardest part in acting is to
make it look all too easy. Sure he's not the BEST actor in the biz but
he's one of the best at what he does. The great thing about him is that
he knows his limitations and never had the pretense of becoming his own
scriptwriter and director (like some other less talented bags of meat
out
there).
This still remains the entertainment industry and both the gentlemen
discussed have proven themselves to be great entertainers.
Wether it's your cup of tea it's one thing but dismissing their work on
the grounds of "artistic merit" is a high road approach which has
always
bugged me.
Oh yeah! And that "lame smiley face" at the bottom of my posts is my
cyber self portrait. I came up with it when I first shaved my head two
years ago and it sorta stuck. I just thought it was more friendly than
my
signature with the lengthy resume I used to have, especially since I
like
being here as a fan of the flick and not a some sort of celeb. But I'm
not adverse to "emoticons" as they often add an element in a typed
discussion that is usually carried by tone of voice. ;-p
(:^)]
--------------- MESSAGE heavenly-c.v001.n911.8 ---------------
From: "E. Jean Guerin" <orson@videotron.ca>
Subject: Re:Arnie's diet tips
Date: Sun, 06 Sep 1998 02:01:19 -0400
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
jeroen wrote:
>And then there's the 'kate must loose weight to play his wife' thing
>which i find really disgusting.
Again, this has been blown out of proportion.
It's just ten pounds. Not an uncommon request in this biz since the
camera adds ten to begin with. It's something that Arnie himself
undergoes everytime he makes a film. I can understand it because his
type
of film is very physically demanding; especially when you think that
every sequence is restaged so many times for all the diffrent camera
angles not to mention the retakes. This is one of those common trade
secrets that somehow made headlines because Kate doesn't pursue being
on
the front cover of tabloids so they have to find something, anything to
get a headline with her name on it.
Besides, it turns out she was losing those same ten pounds for another
film anyway.
Heck! Stan Shaw was sent to the gym for a week on "Snake Eyes" as he
was
way too "soft" to be convincing as a champion prize fighter. But a
"Stan
Shaw must diet" doesn't sell papers. An "Arnie says Kate must diet" has
two star names and the word diet in it which grab attention.
And earlier today, I was chatting with Geoffrey Holder *(who's
attending
the Montreal Film Festival) and was joking about how some shoots ask
him
to slim down only to make you sit and wait around all day with nothing
else to do but eat.
*[Geoffrey Holder is a painter, costume designer, singer and actor
probably best know for playing the dreaded Baron Samedi in the James
Bond
flick "Live and Let Die". He is as charming as I thought he'd be if not
more. And he's a fan of HC! He caught it at the Angelika film Center in
NY when it first opened there. He was here for the premiere of Claude
Lelouch's new film "Hasards et Coincidences"]
(:^)]
--------------- MESSAGE heavenly-c.v001.n911.9 ---------------
From: "E. Jean Guerin" <orson@videotron.ca>
Subject: Fight? This is all out War!! (kidding!)
Date: Sun, 06 Sep 1998 02:06:07 -0400
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
jeroen wrote:
>Fight? Come on, this isn't a fight, just a healthy discussion. I'm
>sure jean feels the same way.
Oops, I thought it was a fight and was pulling political strings to
have
Canada repossess the Netherlands. After all, the only reason you guys
aren't german subjects is because we bailed your ass out in WWII. :-)
[call the smileys lame but there's no way I'd writea post like this
without making sure noooobody thinks I'm serious.]
(:^)]
--------------- MESSAGE heavenly-c.v001.n911.10 ---------------
From: Bettina.Hahn@t-online.de (Bettina.Hahn)
Subject: Titanic 2?
Date: Sun, 6 Sep 1998 10:46:40 +0200
MIME-Version: 1.0
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Iīve heard thereīs planned a second part of Titanic: Jack actually
didnīt die,
he survived and is now looking for his beloved Rose who is a nurse
somewhere
during WW2. I say if they do that and Kate plays Rose although the
story is
highly illogical and everyone can see that itīs just because of the
profite, I
will never ever watch a movie with her again!!! I donīt believe sheīll
do it,
but how could anyone respect that? Itīs a disgusting thought...
Jack could never have survived, and if they ever met again, why should
old Rose
hace lied about it? I think.....NO.
Maybe itīs just a roumor, I donīt know. What do you think?
*HUGS*
--------------- END heavenly-c.v001.n911 ---------------
Date:
Mon, 7 Sep 1998 00:43:30 -0700 (PDT)
From:
heavenly-c-errors@lists.best.com Add to Address Book
Subject:
Digest heavenly-c.v001.n912
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heavenly-c@lists.best.com
-------------- BEGIN heavenly-c.v001.n912 --------------
001 - "Marie Braden" <braden@ms - RE: Titanic 2?
002 - nbk94@xs4all.nl (jeroen) - Re: Fight? This is all out War!!
(kidding!)
003 - nbk94@xs4all.nl (jeroen) - Re: Arnie's diet tips
004 - nbk94@xs4all.nl (jeroen) - Re: Kate Titanic Winslet
005 - "E. Jean Guerin" <orson@v - Re: Titanic 2? + that Rose Doll
006 - "E. Jean Guerin" <orson@v - Re: Arnie's diet tips
007 - ~lyric~ <dalyric@writeme. - War(s)!!! (-:
008 - Diello833@aol.com - Should I be Committed?
009 - nbk94@xs4all.nl (jeroen) - Re: Should I be Committed?
010 - ~lyric~ <dalyric@writeme. - Re: Should I be Committed?
--------------- MESSAGE heavenly-c.v001.n912.1 ---------------
From: "Marie Braden" <braden@msw0.attnet.or.jp>
Subject: RE: Titanic 2?
Date: Sun, 6 Sep 1998 18:34:55 +0900
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charset="iso-8859-1"
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In-Reply-To: <199809060849.BAA29803@lists1.best.com>
> Iīve heard thereīs planned a second part of Titanic: Jack
> actually didnīt die,
> he survived and is now looking for his beloved Rose who is a
> nurse somewhere
> during WW2. I say if they do that and Kate plays Rose although
> the story is
> highly illogical and everyone can see that itīs just because of
> the profits, I
> will never ever watch a movie with her again!!! I donīt believe
> sheīll do it,
> but how could anyone respect that? Itīs a disgusting thought...
> Jack could never have survived, and if they ever met again, why
> should old Rose
> haze lied about it? I think.....NO.
Probably a rumor...however, if the story is Jack surviving and looking
for
Rose, he probably wouldn't find her....Still, though....it's pretty
sleazy
to bring back the dead....though it could be amusing to see other of
Rose's
adventures throughout her life....
--------------- MESSAGE heavenly-c.v001.n912.2 ---------------
From: nbk94@xs4all.nl (jeroen)
Subject: Re: Fight? This is all out War!! (kidding!)
Date: Sun, 06 Sep 1998 10:57:40 GMT
MIME-Version: 1.0
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In-Reply-To: <199809060603.XAA28655@lists1.best.com>
On Sun, 06 Sep 1998 02:06:07 -0400, "E. Jean Guerin"
<orson@videotron.ca> wrote:
>jeroen wrote:
>
>>Fight? Come on, this isn't a fight, just a healthy discussion. I'm
>>sure jean feels the same way.
>
>Oops, I thought it was a fight and was pulling political strings to
have
>Canada repossess the Netherlands. After all, the only reason you guys
>aren't german subjects is because we bailed your ass out in WWII. :-)
Thanks but no thanks. Being a german subject i could at least have
afforded that nice bmw 325 convertible.
Btw i love canada. It gave us michael j. fox and electrohome
projectors. Hallelujah.
You've seen MEET WALLY SPARKS? I love rodney's canada joke: 'they
started a country and nobody showed up'. Hehe.
--
jeroen -- the netherlands -- http://www.xs4all.nl/~nbk94
aLL OVER ME hEAVENLY CREATURES jUDE lEON nBK
--------------- MESSAGE heavenly-c.v001.n912.3 ---------------
From: nbk94@xs4all.nl (jeroen)
Subject: Re: Arnie's diet tips
Date: Sun, 06 Sep 1998 10:57:39 GMT
MIME-Version: 1.0
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References: <199809060557.WAA26995@lists1.best.com>
In-Reply-To: <199809060557.WAA26995@lists1.best.com>
On Sun, 06 Sep 1998 02:01:19 -0400, "E. Jean Guerin"
<orson@videotron.ca> wrote:
>jeroen wrote:
>
>>And then there's the 'kate must loose weight to play his wife' thing
>>which i find really disgusting.
>
>Again, this has been blown out of proportion.
Maybe, but it still happened.
It's all about appearances. He and his kind think that having a 'good
looking' babe co-star in their movies makes them look good too. Take
a look at their barbie doll wives in real life, it's the same thing.
And by 'good looking' i mean what's considered good looking by the
general public.
Take mel lynskey, or alison folland. I don't think arnold would even
consider having them in one of his movies. Thank god for that.
>It's just ten pounds. Not an uncommon request in this biz since the
>camera adds ten to begin with.
This makes me think of a brilliant joke from THE LARRY SANDERS SHOW
which i'm not gonna repeat here. People who have seen the 'hank's
birthday' episode know what i'm talking about.
--
jeroen -- the netherlands -- http://www.xs4all.nl/~nbk94
aLL OVER ME hEAVENLY CREATURES jUDE lEON nBK
--------------- MESSAGE heavenly-c.v001.n912.4 ---------------
From: nbk94@xs4all.nl (jeroen)
Subject: Re: Kate Titanic Winslet
Date: Sun, 06 Sep 1998 10:57:38 GMT
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In-Reply-To: <199809060535.WAA20935@lists1.best.com>
On Sun, 06 Sep 1998 01:38:00 -0400, "E. Jean Guerin"
<orson@videotron.ca> wrote:
>jeroen wrote:
>
>>I meant to say that big in the $pielberg way really isn't
>>a good thing.
>
>I guess people have forgotten the days when Spielberg was the underdog
>who questionned why stars got million dollar salaries while the
>filmmakers were getting smaller and smaller budgets to work with.
My problem with spielberg and his kind is that they represent the
hollywood money making machine. Hey, i studied business economics, so
i know all about supply and demand, but everytime i see one of those
blockbuster movies i think of all the 'little' directors who
practically have to beg for money to get their movies of the ground.
One less explosion or cgi effect in a stupid summer action flick could
finance a whole indy project!
And where i live it's even worse. What's considered low-budget in the
US is very big budget overhere.
Wasn't it the same spielberg who said to martin scorsese 'oh you're
working low budget now' after martin told him he was making TAXI
DRIVER for less than the price of a 3rd world country?
Apart from that i just don't like his movies. I was 11 y/o when ET
came out, and i was the only kid in class who hated it. I almost got
beaten up over it once but that's another story. And don't get me
started on that SHINDLER'S LIST wannabe art-house crap, please.
>Like the old saying goes "opinions are like assholes, everyone has
one".
>I'd rather read the biography of a filmmaker over a collection of
Pauline
>Kael reviews anyday.
Actually i love reading reviews, but only after i've seen a film. Btw
i'd really love to read yours, make sure to put 'm on your site!
>As for Arnie,people often forget that the hardest part in acting is to
>make it look all too easy. Sure he's not the BEST actor in the biz but
>he's one of the best at what he does. The great thing about him is
that
>he knows his limitations and never had the pretense of becoming his
own
>scriptwriter and director (like some other less talented bags of meat
out
>there).
Another one of his limitations is that he can't act, so he shouldn't
have the pretense to be an actor.
The guy reads his lines like a 6 y/o in a school play. He's a joke.
Flipping burgers in one of his restaurants is all he's good for,
although i think even beavis and butt-head would do a better job at
that. Hey at least they're the better actors.
--
jeroen -- the netherlands -- http://www.xs4all.nl/~nbk94
aLL OVER ME hEAVENLY CREATURES jUDE lEON nBK
--------------- MESSAGE heavenly-c.v001.n912.5 ---------------
From: "E. Jean Guerin" <orson@videotron.ca>
Subject: Re: Titanic 2? + that Rose Doll
Date: Sun, 06 Sep 1998 09:36:37 -0400
MIME-Version: 1.0
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Bettina.Hahn wrote:
>Maybe itīs just a roumor, I donīt know. What do you think?
We really are at the rumor stage here. The other idea was for a later
adventure for Rose.
BTW, I saw a pic of the "Rose" doll. While it wears a replica of the
evening dress Rose wore, the face on the doll didn't seem to be modeled
after Kate (either they did a crap job or she didn't sign for them to
use her likeness- maybe they couldn't afford it)
(:^)]
--------------- MESSAGE heavenly-c.v001.n912.6 ---------------
From: "E. Jean Guerin" <orson@videotron.ca>
Subject: Re: Arnie's diet tips
Date: Sun, 06 Sep 1998 09:58:35 -0400
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
jeroen wrote:
>Maybe, but it still happened.
>
>It's all about appearances. He and his kind think that having a 'good
>looking' babe co-star in their movies makes them look good too. Take
>a look at their barbie doll wives in real life, it's the same thing.
See, it's those "he and his kind" , "& their ilk" generalized
statements
that get me riled up.
I really wouldn't call Maria Schriver a "Barbie Doll".
That weight thing is really an actor's tool(lose weight, gain weight,
shave your head, grow a beard etc.). Kate added some pounds for Titanic
as that suited the part (the Cindy Crawford look wasn't the standard
for
beauty earlier this century)
It happened to Roger Moore too when he was cast as James Bond. It was
conditionnal that he lose weight and cut his hair. (I caught that
tidbit
yeserday while I was reading up on Geoffrey Holder last night)
I've been asked to trim for some films. I really don't see the big deal.
Besides, Kate's one of the most mature, smart actresses I've ever met.
No
one's going to make her do anything against her will. If she goes for
it
then, eshe's ok with it and she had a lot more insight into the
situation
than any of us did. I'm playing "devil's advocate" here mostly for that
reason.
And that sort of thing happens on Indie films too . And while we are on
that topic, there are some good indies that rise to the top and some
baaaaad indies that never pay anybody for their hard work.
After a while you learn that you can't generalize. Prejudice is
prejudice
no matter what direction it goes.
(:^)]
--------------- MESSAGE heavenly-c.v001.n912.7 ---------------
From: ~lyric~ <dalyric@writeme.com>
Subject: War(s)!!! (-:
Date: Sun, 06 Sep 1998 16:29:56 +0200
MIME-Version: 1.0
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<199809061059.DAA26393@lists1.best.com>
A lot of cutting and pasting (replying to a lot of emails at once) and
voila: (-:
E. Jean Guerin wrote:
> Oops, I thought it was a fight and was pulling political strings to
have
> Canada repossess the Netherlands. After all, the only reason you guys
> aren't german subjects is because we bailed your ass out in WWII. :-)
Ahhh...you're actually Biggles and rescued the Thetherlands!! A bit late
though, too late to save my family...
But you defenately made it up with dropping chocolate, gum and
cigarettes! thanx... (-:
jeroen wrote:
> Apart from that i just don't like his movies. I was 11 y/o when ET
> came out, and i was the only kid in class who hated it. I almost got
> beaten up over it once but that's another story. And don't get me
> started on that SHINDLER'S LIST wannabe art-house crap, please.
Schindler's list is a wonderful film. And that's all I have to say about
that...
jeroen wrote:
> And then there's the 'kate must loose weight to play his wife' thing
> which i find really disgusting.
Actors loose and gain weight all the time in order to play their roles.
Take a look at some John Travolta pictures over the years! Yeah, of
course he became older, but still... (-:
E. Jean Guerin wrote:
> HC is a movie I worked on. It's not *my* movie nor is it *yours*.
True, but I also understand what Jeroen's trying to say. I sorta gave up
hope that one of the people I show it to, will ever like it. "Weird and
scary" is more what they think of it...
Okay, all together now, repeat after me:
I think HC's fantastic!!!! (-:
Take care,
Marloes
--
Though I am different from you,
We were born involved in one another
- Tau Ch'ien
--------------- MESSAGE heavenly-c.v001.n912.8 ---------------
From: Diello833@aol.com
Subject: Should I be Committed?
Date: Sun, 6 Sep 1998 18:58:09 EDT
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
Since I'm fairly new to the list, I wanted ask your opinions on
something. In
some sort of strange, twisted way, I kind of take Heavenly Creatures as
a
comedy. The same way films like A Clockwork Orange, Natural Born
Killers,
Pulp Fiction, Fargo and others are comedies (I'm sorry to use such
'cliche'
films as examples, but I can't think of any other such films off the
top of my
head). Yes, HC is also a drama, a tragedy, and a thriller, but the
whole
absurdity (if there is such a word) of it makes it amusing. I was
watching it
last night with some friends that had never seen it before, and I found
myself
laughing at it when my friends weren't. I hope you don't think I'm
some sicko
because of this. But I was wondering if anyone else sees the film in
this
way.
Paul
--------------- MESSAGE heavenly-c.v001.n912.9 ---------------
From: nbk94@xs4all.nl (jeroen)
Subject: Re: Should I be Committed?
Date: Mon, 07 Sep 1998 07:38:15 GMT
MIME-Version: 1.0
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References: <199809062259.PAA14954@lists1.best.com>
In-Reply-To: <199809062259.PAA14954@lists1.best.com>
On Sun, 6 Sep 1998 18:58:09 EDT, Diello833@aol.com wrote:
>some sort of strange, twisted way, I kind of take Heavenly Creatures
as a
>comedy. The same way films like A Clockwork Orange, Natural Born
Killers,
I agree that there are some funny parts in both HC and NBK. In HC i
think some of the early scenes are hilarious, like the 'all the best
people' scene, and the first scene with hilda and bill. I also think
kate's crying over the phone (they can't they can't!) is funny in an
NBK over the top kinda way, but i doubt that was done on purpose.
About NBK, the rodney dangerfield sitcom sequence is black comedy at
it's best, although that creepy laugh track makes me a bit
uncomfortable. Also the 'drop it' scene where the guard drops the
donut is an instant classic. And of course tommy-lee jones' character
is funny throughout the whole film (his '50 seconds and i'm coming up'
scene is my favorite).
To me both films are very similar, with the perfect mix of over the
top humor and serious drama as one of the many similarities.
--
jeroen -- the netherlands -- http://www.xs4all.nl/~nbk94
aLL OVER ME hEAVENLY CREATURES jUDE lEON nBK
--------------- MESSAGE heavenly-c.v001.n912.10 ---------------
From: ~lyric~ <dalyric@writeme.com>
Subject: Re: Should I be Committed?
Date: Mon, 07 Sep 1998 09:48:30 +0000
MIME-Version: 1.0
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References: <199809062259.PAA14954@lists1.best.com>
Diello833@aol.com wrote:
>
> Since I'm fairly new to the list, I wanted ask your opinions on
something. In
> some sort of strange, twisted way, I kind of take Heavenly Creatures
as a
> comedy.
I wouldn't want to label it a 'comedy' but there are defenately a lot of
funny scenes. That's what I like about this film, the different emotions
it brings up. One moment I'm rolling on the floor laughing out loud, and
the next moment I'm crying...
The Donkey Serenade brings a BIG smile on my face, so does the chase by
Orson Welles! Anyway, what I wanted to say is that the scenes, and the
wonderful acting make me laugh. But the story as a whole doesn't...
Take care,
Marloes
--------------- END heavenly-c.v001.n912 ---------------
Date:
Mon, 7 Sep 1998 14:47:37 -0700 (PDT)
From:
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Subject:
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-------------- BEGIN heavenly-c.v001.n913 --------------
001 - Tine Nielsen <tinen@dorit - Re: Titanic
002 - Phil West <pgw16@hermes.c - Re: Should I be Committed?
003 - mailcall <mailcall@bluema - Re: Should I be Committed?
004 - Rosedwson4@aol.com - Re:rose doll...
005 - Diello833@aol.com - Re: Should I be Committed?
006 - Phil West <pgw16@hermes.c - Re: Should I be Committed?
007 - Phil West <pgw16@hermes.c - Re: Should I be Committed?
008 - nbk94@xs4all.nl (jeroen) - unidentified heavenly object
009 - Marissa Carlson <rissacar - unsubscribe
010 - "Marie Braden" <braden@ms - RE: Should I be Committed?
--------------- MESSAGE heavenly-c.v001.n913.1 ---------------
From: Tine Nielsen <tinen@dorit.ihi.ku.dk>
Subject: Re: Titanic
Date: Mon, 07 Sep 1998 12:56:57 +0200
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
References: <199809040427.VAA19107@lists1.best.com>
<199809040749.AAA21925@lists1.best.com>
In-Reply-To: <199809041507.IAA05582@lists1.best.com>
Hi Creatures,
At 11:54 04-09-98 -0700, you wrote:
>> Or they could just ask the child to close his or her eyes
>> for those few seconds..
>
>I agree, that would be the way I would go about "editing" it. However,
I
>was merely addressing the other reasons why someone else might have
felt
>it neccasary.
Yeah I know :)
Cheers,
Tine
=====================================================
"Excuse me sir, but you're standing in your pizza"
- Thelma and Louise
tinen@dorit.ihi.ku.dk/bridehead@hotmail.com
=====================================================
--------------- MESSAGE heavenly-c.v001.n913.2 ---------------
From: Phil West <pgw16@hermes.cam.ac.uk>
Subject: Re: Should I be Committed?
Date: Mon, 7 Sep 1998 12:54:59 +0100 (BST)
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII
In-Reply-To: <199809062259.PAA14954@lists1.best.com>
> Since I'm fairly new to the list,
- Hi, Paul
> I wanted ask your opinions on something. In some sort of strange,
> twisted way, I kind of take Heavenly Creatures as a comedy.
well, comedies are often about bringing people together, tragedies about
pulling them apart. In this sense, HC begins like a comedy and ends
tragically: it is a beautiful centaur. Peter Jackson is so gifted at
pacing his films really fast - a rare skill, I think - that he can get
both bits into 100 minutes, convincingly and seamlessly.
> Yes, HC is also a drama, a tragedy, and a thriller, but the whole
> absurdity (if there is such a word) of it makes it amusing.
I was just reading an article in the newspaper the other day by the
novelist Howard Jacobson (not my favourite guy). He had been on a boat
off the coast of Africa somewhere, scattering the ashes of his father in
law. It was windy, and the ashes kept blowing back in the family's
faces;
they couldn't get the urn open for 20 minutes, until someone hacked into
it with a knife; and the whole occasion became utterly absurd,
Jacobson's
remark was that since life was itself so absurd, there's no reason death
should be anything else.
In HC, though, there's nothing absurd about the death of Honora. In the
last scene she is played with enormous sympathy, and Sarah Peirse looks
utterly tragic and motherly. I don't think the ending is comedic or
comic: in fact, I'd say it's a double tragedy, and that that is why it
is
so gut-wrenching. Double because Jackson intercuts the separation scene
of Pauline and Juliet - the ship/dock b&ws - with the murder; tragic
because neither event is both inevitable and ineluctable: we know it
will
happen, we can't believe it will. The last time I saw the film, when it
was on British TV, I was watching with a few people I didn't know, at a
friend's, and they were all hiding behind cushions, saying "Oh, she's
not
going to, she's not going to,.... what? what? oh NO" and so forth.
> I was watching it last night with some friends that had never seen it
> before, and I found myself laughing at it when my friends weren't. I
> hope you don't think I'm some sicko because of this. But I was
> wondering if anyone else sees the film in this way.
I noticed that the second and third times I saw HC in the cinema, the
audiences were much more into the laughing than the first time. I think
it
depends on all kinds of things about your mood, but it certainly doesn't
mean you're a sicko, Paul. Not necessarily, anway... ;-) ho ho...
There's a lot of building up of tension and release going on during a
viewing of HC. Aristotle's definition of tragedy is that during a
performance, the audience experience heightened emotions of fear and
pity;
the tragic ending then purges them of these sensations, enabling them to
go about their lives as citizens (and beating their slaves like a good
Athenian). Loosely, I'd say that HC, too, creates and purges certain
emotions. In other words, it kicks like a tragic mule! :)
Sorry to blather on.
Welcome to the list, Paul!
Phil
(..flying to the City of Brotherly Love tomorrow to visit his Juliet.)
--------------- MESSAGE heavenly-c.v001.n913.3 ---------------
From: mailcall <mailcall@bluemarble.net>
Subject: Re: Should I be Committed?
Date: Mon, 7 Sep 1998 08:48:47 -0500 (EST)
MIME-Version: 1.0
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In-Reply-To: <199809062259.PAA14954@lists1.best.com>
don't worry, the first time i sat down to watch hc (knowing the full
story,
i've known it since college) i laughed my head off at some scenes. it
was
cute and funny. i still laugh at dad singing to the fish, pauline and
juliet dancing around in their underwear and running into that guy
fixing
the fence, "the empress deborah has the most enormous difficulty..." i
think the fun stuff is part of the whole point of the film.
--==** melanthe alexian **==--
...she just slipped away...
--------------- MESSAGE heavenly-c.v001.n913.4 ---------------
From: Rosedwson4@aol.com
Subject: Re:rose doll...
Date: Mon, 7 Sep 1998 10:58:24 EDT
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
In a message dated 98-09-07 04:00:08 EDT, you write:
> BTW, I saw a pic of the "Rose" doll. While it wears a replica of the
evening
> dress Rose wore, the face on the doll didn't seem to be modeled after
Kate (
> either they did a crap job or she didn't sign for them to use her
likeness-
> maybe they couldn't afford it)
well I guess they just did a crap job (i know, i saw it too...looks
more like
just barbie with a lot of titanic-ized make up on!) because kate did
sign and
tell them they could do a doll after her... the reason there is no jack
doll
is because Leo wouldnt sign tto let them do one of him, but kate said
it was
ok, so thats why the dolls are here, but i guess the company doesnt
have very
good eyesight or something... hmmmm.. :-)
ok, talk to ya later
love,
Rachel :-) !!!
--------------- MESSAGE heavenly-c.v001.n913.5 ---------------
From: Diello833@aol.com
Subject: Re: Should I be Committed?
Date: Mon, 7 Sep 1998 10:58:21 EDT
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
In a message dated 9/7/98 7:01:46 AM Central Daylight Time,
pgw16@hermes.cam.ac.uk writes:
<< In HC, though, there's nothing absurd about the death of Honora. In
the
last scene she is played with enormous sympathy, and Sarah Peirse looks
utterly tragic and motherly. I don't think the ending is comedic or
comic: in fact, I'd say it's a double tragedy, and that that is why it
is
so gut-wrenching. Double because Jackson intercuts the separation
scene
of Pauline and Juliet - the ship/dock b&ws - with the murder; tragic
because neither event is both inevitable and ineluctable: we know it
will
happen, we can't believe it will. The last time I saw the film, when
it
was on British TV, I was watching with a few people I didn't know, at a
friend's, and they were all hiding behind cushions, saying "Oh, she's
not
going to, she's not going to,.... what? what? oh NO" and so forth.
>>
Now, just to reiterate, I don't find the ending absurd or comedic
either.
Maybe I should clarify. When I said that the absurdity of the film
made me
laugh, I was more referring to the fantasy aspects and the way Pauline
and
Juliet can't tell the difference between it and everyone else's
reality. The
scenes that made me laugh in particular (off the top of my head) were
when
Pauline is at the psychologist and Diello comes up from behind and
kills him.
In some weird, fantastic way, I found this amusing (I mean, come on,
haven't
we all fantasized something like that with a teacher or some other
authority
figure. I think that's a major part of the film, in that they may be
thinking
the same things the rest of us think, but where we treat it as fantasy,
they
treat it as reality). Or again when Pauline dreams of Diello dropping
the
gate on the former boarder. That's comedy! I think Mel Brooks put it
best
when he said: "Tragedy is when I cut my finger. Comedy is when you
fall in an
open sewer and die."
Paul
--------------- MESSAGE heavenly-c.v001.n913.6 ---------------
From: Phil West <pgw16@hermes.cam.ac.uk>
Subject: Re: Should I be Committed?
Date: Mon, 7 Sep 1998 17:12:00 +0100 (BST)
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII
In-Reply-To: <199809071459.HAA02139@lists1.best.com>
> I was more referring to the fantasy aspects and the way Pauline and
> Juliet can't tell the difference between it and everyone else's
reality.
> The scenes that made me laugh in particular (off the top of my head)
> were when Pauline is at the psychologist and Diello comes up from
behind
> and kills him. In some weird, fantastic way, I found this amusing (I
> mean, come on, haven't we all fantasized something like that with a
> teacher or some other authority figure.
Iconoclasm has been high on PJ's inspiration list since Bad Taste, and
Braindead must be the fullest exposition of the id yet seen on a cinema
screen -- totally Dionysian, uncontrolled, unleashed. A love of
bringing
down pompous, self-important idiots or the societies they uphold, is
certainly seething under the surface of HC. It was something all the
reviewers picked up on as a continuity between HC and earlier Jackson.
One has to be a little careful, though. Braindead passed on the
questionable enthusiasm of Lionel's mass murdering of zombies because,
after all, they're zombies(!): at their most human, they're metaphorical
representatives of the tedious, prissy culture the film loathes; at
best,
they're just the undead. :)
But HC isn't so content to approve of Pauline and Juliet, even when
they're being very funny and we're laughing along. Miss Waller, Miss
Stuart, et al are played as objects of ridicule, 2D characters whose
emotions we are not meant to consider. The film deliberately
anaesthetizes us to their feelings, as all comedy tends to (for
instance,
the death of Vincent Vega in Pulp Fiction is a shock, but not a nasty
one
since we're tied up in the story of Butch and pleased that he appears to
be getting away at that point; or indeed, no one worries about the death
of the boxer he has killed the previous day).
> I think that's a major part of the film, in that they may be thinking
> the same things the rest of us think, but where we treat it as
fantasy,
> they treat it as reality.
True. But isn't it just the same inability to perceive a difference
between fantasy and reality that plays a large part in the murder?
(The echoes of schizophrenia it suggests worry me, too). The
penetration
of fantasy into reality occurs in the great moment you mention -
> Or again when Pauline dreams of Diello dropping the
> gate on the former boarder.
> That's comedy!
This directly foreshadows the method of the murder using the gemstone.
It's funny and exciting to watch Diello being squashed (or decapitated
on
the NZ cut) but not particularly funny to contemplate how directly
Pauline's fantasy life later fuels her murderous act. For me this is a
very perceptive comment by J&W on why some people murder.
> I think Mel Brooks put it best when he said: "Tragedy is when I cut my
> finger. Comedy is when you fall in an open sewer and die."
It's a good joke, but leads me to wonder whether Mel Brooks ever laughs
at
himself. (I'm inclined to think he probably does).
HC denies the "us and them" morality of this joke in the grim brutality
of
its closing scenes. We can no longer treat Honora as a 2D character:
like
Pauline and Juliet as they kill her, we have to come to terms with the
real person behind the dentures and hair pins. The look on Mel
Lynskey's
face after she has struck the first blow is as uncomedic as it is
uncomic.
This doesn't deny the earlier jokes; it just puts them in their place.
Cheers,
Phil
--------------- MESSAGE heavenly-c.v001.n913.7 ---------------
From: Phil West <pgw16@hermes.cam.ac.uk>
Subject: Re: Should I be Committed?
Date: Mon, 7 Sep 1998 17:26:26 +0100 (BST)
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII
In-Reply-To: <199809071613.JAA10495@lists1.best.com>
> HC denies the "us and them" morality of this joke in the grim
brutality of
> its closing scenes. We can no longer treat Honora as a 2D character:
like
> Pauline and Juliet as they kill her, we have to come to terms with the
> real person behind the dentures and hair pins.
Sorry to quote myself, but I meant to add that this moment is absolutely
riveting when compared to Euripides' Electra. Electra and Orestes, her
brother, make such a bad job of killing their mother Clytemnestra (in
revenge for her killing of their father Agamemnon) and they take so long
about it, that the quick bonk on the head they had planned turns into
protracted suffering for all - mother and children. It's quite the most
painful thing you can imagine (other than Men in Tights) and drains
revenge of all its glory.
Phil
--------------- MESSAGE heavenly-c.v001.n913.8 ---------------
From: nbk94@xs4all.nl (jeroen)
Subject: unidentified heavenly object
Date: Mon, 07 Sep 1998 17:03:31 GMT
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit
In the port levy scene, during the shot of juliet right after pauline
has jumped in the water, you can see something black moving into the
frame. It's all the way on the left side of the screen, on the edge
of the jetty.
Is it a cameraman's foot or a boom mike or something?
--
jeroen -- the netherlands -- http://www.xs4all.nl/~nbk94
aLL OVER ME hEAVENLY CREATURES jUDE lEON nBK
--------------- MESSAGE heavenly-c.v001.n913.9 ---------------
From: Marissa Carlson <rissacar@sover.net>
Subject: unsubscribe
Date: Mon, 07 Sep 1998 14:24:09 -0400
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit
References: <199809070743.AAA17520@lists1.best.com>
unsubscribe, UNSUBSCRIBE, Unsubscribe
HELP someone - something!! unsubscribe
PLEASE unsubscribe.
What do we have to do to stop getting these messages????
unsubscribe
heavenly-c-errors@lists.best.com wrote:
> -------------- BEGIN heavenly-c.v001.n912 --------------
>
> 001 - "Marie Braden" <braden@ms - RE: Titanic 2?
> 002 - nbk94@xs4all.nl (jeroen) - Re: Fight? This is all out
War!! (kidding!)
> 003 - nbk94@xs4all.nl (jeroen) - Re: Arnie's diet tips
> 004 - nbk94@xs4all.nl (jeroen) - Re: Kate Titanic Winslet
> 005 - "E. Jean Guerin" <orson@v - Re: Titanic 2? + that Rose Doll
> 006 - "E. Jean Guerin" <orson@v - Re: Arnie's diet tips
> 007 - ~lyric~ <dalyric@writeme. - War(s)!!! (-:
> 008 - Diello833@aol.com - Should I be Committed?
> 009 - nbk94@xs4all.nl (jeroen) - Re: Should I be Committed?
> 010 - ~lyric~ <dalyric@writeme. - Re: Should I be Committed?
>
> --------------- MESSAGE heavenly-c.v001.n912.1 ---------------
>
> From: "Marie Braden" <braden@msw0.attnet.or.jp>
> Subject: RE: Titanic 2?
> Date: Sun, 6 Sep 1998 18:34:55 +0900
> MIME-Version: 1.0
> Content-Type: text/plain;
> charset="iso-8859-1"
> Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit
> In-Reply-To: <199809060849.BAA29803@lists1.best.com>
>
> > Iīve heard thereīs planned a second part of Titanic: Jack
> > actually didnīt die,
> > he survived and is now looking for his beloved Rose who is a
> > nurse somewhere
> > during WW2. I say if they do that and Kate plays Rose although
> > the story is
> > highly illogical and everyone can see that itīs just because of
> > the profits, I
> > will never ever watch a movie with her again!!! I donīt believe
> > sheīll do it,
> > but how could anyone respect that? Itīs a disgusting thought...
> > Jack could never have survived, and if they ever met again, why
> > should old Rose
> > haze lied about it? I think.....NO.
> Probably a rumor...however, if the story is Jack surviving and
looking for
> Rose, he probably wouldn't find her....Still, though....it's pretty
sleazy
> to bring back the dead....though it could be amusing to see other of
Rose's
> adventures throughout her life....
>
> --------------- MESSAGE heavenly-c.v001.n912.2 ---------------
>
> From: nbk94@xs4all.nl (jeroen)
> Subject: Re: Fight? This is all out War!! (kidding!)
> Date: Sun, 06 Sep 1998 10:57:40 GMT
> MIME-Version: 1.0
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
> Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit
> References: <199809060603.XAA28655@lists1.best.com>
> In-Reply-To: <199809060603.XAA28655@lists1.best.com>
>
> On Sun, 06 Sep 1998 02:06:07 -0400, "E. Jean Guerin"
> <orson@videotron.ca> wrote:
>
> >jeroen wrote:
> >
> >>Fight? Come on, this isn't a fight, just a healthy discussion. I'm
> >>sure jean feels the same way.
> >
> >Oops, I thought it was a fight and was pulling political strings to
have
> >Canada repossess the Netherlands. After all, the only reason you guys
> >aren't german subjects is because we bailed your ass out in WWII. :-)
>
> Thanks but no thanks. Being a german subject i could at least have
> afforded that nice bmw 325 convertible.
>
> Btw i love canada. It gave us michael j. fox and electrohome
> projectors. Hallelujah.
>
> You've seen MEET WALLY SPARKS? I love rodney's canada joke: 'they
> started a country and nobody showed up'. Hehe.
>
> --
> jeroen -- the netherlands -- http://www.xs4all.nl/~nbk94
> aLL OVER ME hEAVENLY CREATURES jUDE lEON nBK
>
> --------------- MESSAGE heavenly-c.v001.n912.3 ---------------
>
> From: nbk94@xs4all.nl (jeroen)
> Subject: Re: Arnie's diet tips
> Date: Sun, 06 Sep 1998 10:57:39 GMT
> MIME-Version: 1.0
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
> Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit
> References: <199809060557.WAA26995@lists1.best.com>
> In-Reply-To: <199809060557.WAA26995@lists1.best.com>
>
> On Sun, 06 Sep 1998 02:01:19 -0400, "E. Jean Guerin"
> <orson@videotron.ca> wrote:
>
> >jeroen wrote:
> >
> >>And then there's the 'kate must loose weight to play his wife' thing
> >>which i find really disgusting.
> >
> >Again, this has been blown out of proportion.
>
> Maybe, but it still happened.
>
> It's all about appearances. He and his kind think that having a 'good
> looking' babe co-star in their movies makes them look good too. Take
> a look at their barbie doll wives in real life, it's the same thing.
>
> And by 'good looking' i mean what's considered good looking by the
> general public.
>
> Take mel lynskey, or alison folland. I don't think arnold would even
> consider having them in one of his movies. Thank god for that.
>
> >It's just ten pounds. Not an uncommon request in this biz since the
> >camera adds ten to begin with.
>
> This makes me think of a brilliant joke from THE LARRY SANDERS SHOW
> which i'm not gonna repeat here. People who have seen the 'hank's
> birthday' episode know what i'm talking about.
>
> --
> jeroen -- the netherlands -- http://www.xs4all.nl/~nbk94
> aLL OVER ME hEAVENLY CREATURES jUDE lEON nBK
>
> --------------- MESSAGE heavenly-c.v001.n912.4 ---------------
>
> From: nbk94@xs4all.nl (jeroen)
> Subject: Re: Kate Titanic Winslet
> Date: Sun, 06 Sep 1998 10:57:38 GMT
> MIME-Version: 1.0
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
> Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit
> References: <199809060535.WAA20935@lists1.best.com>
> In-Reply-To: <199809060535.WAA20935@lists1.best.com>
>
> On Sun, 06 Sep 1998 01:38:00 -0400, "E. Jean Guerin"
> <orson@videotron.ca> wrote:
>
> >jeroen wrote:
> >
> >>I meant to say that big in the $pielberg way really isn't
> >>a good thing.
> >
> >I guess people have forgotten the days when Spielberg was the
underdog
> >who questionned why stars got million dollar salaries while the
> >filmmakers were getting smaller and smaller budgets to work with.
>
> My problem with spielberg and his kind is that they represent the
> hollywood money making machine. Hey, i studied business economics, so
> i know all about supply and demand, but everytime i see one of those
> blockbuster movies i think of all the 'little' directors who
> practically have to beg for money to get their movies of the ground.
> One less explosion or cgi effect in a stupid summer action flick could
> finance a whole indy project!
>
> And where i live it's even worse. What's considered low-budget in the
> US is very big budget overhere.
>
> Wasn't it the same spielberg who said to martin scorsese 'oh you're
> working low budget now' after martin told him he was making TAXI
> DRIVER for less than the price of a 3rd world country?
>
> Apart from that i just don't like his movies. I was 11 y/o when ET
> came out, and i was the only kid in class who hated it. I almost got
> beaten up over it once but that's another story. And don't get me
> started on that SHINDLER'S LIST wannabe art-house crap, please.
>
> >Like the old saying goes "opinions are like assholes, everyone has
one".
> >I'd rather read the biography of a filmmaker over a collection of
Pauline
> >Kael reviews anyday.
>
> Actually i love reading reviews, but only after i've seen a film. Btw
> i'd really love to read yours, make sure to put 'm on your site!
>
> >As for Arnie,people often forget that the hardest part in acting is
to
> >make it look all too easy. Sure he's not the BEST actor in the biz
but
> >he's one of the best at what he does. The great thing about him is
that
> >he knows his limitations and never had the pretense of becoming his
own
> >scriptwriter and director (like some other less talented bags of
meat out
> >there).
>
> Another one of his limitations is that he can't act, so he shouldn't
> have the pretense to be an actor.
>
> The guy reads his lines like a 6 y/o in a school play. He's a joke.
>
> Flipping burgers in one of his restaurants is all he's good for,
> although i think even beavis and butt-head would do a better job at
> that. Hey at least they're the better actors.
>
> --
> jeroen -- the netherlands -- http://www.xs4all.nl/~nbk94
> aLL OVER ME hEAVENLY CREATURES jUDE lEON nBK
>
> --------------- MESSAGE heavenly-c.v001.n912.5 ---------------
>
> From: "E. Jean Guerin" <orson@videotron.ca>
> Subject: Re: Titanic 2? + that Rose Doll
> Date: Sun, 06 Sep 1998 09:36:37 -0400
> MIME-Version: 1.0
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1
> Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit
>
> Bettina.Hahn wrote:
>
> >Maybe itīs just a roumor, I donīt know. What do you think?
>
> We really are at the rumor stage here. The other idea was for a later
adventure for Rose.
>
> BTW, I saw a pic of the "Rose" doll. While it wears a replica of the
evening dress Rose wore, the face on the doll didn't seem to be modeled
after Kate (either they did a crap job or she didn't sign for them to
use her likeness- maybe they couldn't afford it)
>
> (:^)]
>
> --------------- MESSAGE heavenly-c.v001.n912.6 ---------------
>
> From: "E. Jean Guerin" <orson@videotron.ca>
> Subject: Re: Arnie's diet tips
> Date: Sun, 06 Sep 1998 09:58:35 -0400
> MIME-Version: 1.0
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
>
> jeroen wrote:
>
> >Maybe, but it still happened.
> >
> >It's all about appearances. He and his kind think that having a
'good
> >looking' babe co-star in their movies makes them look good too. Take
> >a look at their barbie doll wives in real life, it's the same thing.
>
> See, it's those "he and his kind" , "& their ilk" generalized
statements
> that get me riled up.
>
> I really wouldn't call Maria Schriver a "Barbie Doll".
>
> That weight thing is really an actor's tool(lose weight, gain weight,
> shave your head, grow a beard etc.). Kate added some pounds for
Titanic
> as that suited the part (the Cindy Crawford look wasn't the standard
for
> beauty earlier this century)
>
> It happened to Roger Moore too when he was cast as James Bond. It was
> conditionnal that he lose weight and cut his hair. (I caught that
tidbit
> yeserday while I was reading up on Geoffrey Holder last night)
>
> I've been asked to trim for some films. I really don't see the big
deal.
>
> Besides, Kate's one of the most mature, smart actresses I've ever
met. No
> one's going to make her do anything against her will. If she goes for
it
> then, eshe's ok with it and she had a lot more insight into the
situation
> than any of us did. I'm playing "devil's advocate" here mostly for
that
> reason.
>
> And that sort of thing happens on Indie films too . And while we are
on
> that topic, there are some good indies that rise to the top and some
> baaaaad indies that never pay anybody for their hard work.
>
> After a while you learn that you can't generalize. Prejudice is
prejudice
> no matter what direction it goes.
>
> (:^)]
>
> --------------- MESSAGE heavenly-c.v001.n912.7 ---------------
>
> From: ~lyric~ <dalyric@writeme.com>
> Subject: War(s)!!! (-:
> Date: Sun, 06 Sep 1998 16:29:56 +0200
> MIME-Version: 1.0
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
> Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
> References: <199809060603.XAA28655@lists1.best.com>
<199809061059.DAA26393@lists1.best.com>
>
> A lot of cutting and pasting (replying to a lot of emails at once) and
> voila: (-:
>
> E. Jean Guerin wrote:
>
> > Oops, I thought it was a fight and was pulling political strings to
have
> > Canada repossess the Netherlands. After all, the only reason you
guys
> > aren't german subjects is because we bailed your ass out in WWII.
:-)
>
> Ahhh...you're actually Biggles and rescued the Thetherlands!! A bit
late
> though, too late to save my family...
> But you defenately made it up with dropping chocolate, gum and
> cigarettes! thanx... (-:
>
> jeroen wrote:
>
> > Apart from that i just don't like his movies. I was 11 y/o when ET
> > came out, and i was the only kid in class who hated it. I almost
got
> > beaten up over it once but that's another story. And don't get me
> > started on that SHINDLER'S LIST wannabe art-house crap, please.
>
> Schindler's list is a wonderful film. And that's all I have to say
about
> that...
>
> jeroen wrote:
>
> > And then there's the 'kate must loose weight to play his wife' thing
> > which i find really disgusting.
>
> Actors loose and gain weight all the time in order to play their
roles.
> Take a look at some John Travolta pictures over the years! Yeah, of
> course he became older, but still... (-:
>
> E. Jean Guerin wrote:
>
> > HC is a movie I worked on. It's not *my* movie nor is it *yours*.
>
> True, but I also understand what Jeroen's trying to say. I sorta gave
up
> hope that one of the people I show it to, will ever like it. "Weird
and
> scary" is more what they think of it...
>
> Okay, all together now, repeat after me:
> I think HC's fantastic!!!! (-:
>
> Take care,
> Marloes
>
> --
> Though I am different from you,
> We were born involved in one another
> - Tau Ch'ien
>
> --------------- MESSAGE heavenly-c.v001.n912.8 ---------------
>
> From: Diello833@aol.com
> Subject: Should I be Committed?
> Date: Sun, 6 Sep 1998 18:58:09 EDT
> MIME-Version: 1.0
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
> Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
>
> Since I'm fairly new to the list, I wanted ask your opinions on
something. In
> some sort of strange, twisted way, I kind of take Heavenly Creatures
as a
> comedy. The same way films like A Clockwork Orange, Natural Born
Killers,
> Pulp Fiction, Fargo and others are comedies (I'm sorry to use such
'cliche'
> films as examples, but I can't think of any other such films off the
top of my
> head). Yes, HC is also a drama, a tragedy, and a thriller, but the
whole
> absurdity (if there is such a word) of it makes it amusing. I was
watching it
> last night with some friends that had never seen it before, and I
found myself
> laughing at it when my friends weren't. I hope you don't think I'm
some sicko
> because of this. But I was wondering if anyone else sees the film in
this
> way.
>
> Paul
>
> --------------- MESSAGE heavenly-c.v001.n912.9 ---------------
>
> From: nbk94@xs4all.nl (jeroen)
> Subject: Re: Should I be Committed?
> Date: Mon, 07 Sep 1998 07:38:15 GMT
> MIME-Version: 1.0
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
> Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit
> References: <199809062259.PAA14954@lists1.best.com>
> In-Reply-To: <199809062259.PAA14954@lists1.best.com>
>
> On Sun, 6 Sep 1998 18:58:09 EDT, Diello833@aol.com wrote:
>
> >some sort of strange, twisted way, I kind of take Heavenly Creatures
as a
> >comedy. The same way films like A Clockwork Orange, Natural Born
Killers,
>
> I agree that there are some funny parts in both HC and NBK. In HC i
> think some of the early scenes are hilarious, like the 'all the best
> people' scene, and the first scene with hilda and bill. I also think
> kate's crying over the phone (they can't they can't!) is funny in an
> NBK over the top kinda way, but i doubt that was done on purpose.
>
> About NBK, the rodney dangerfield sitcom sequence is black comedy at
> it's best, although that creepy laugh track makes me a bit
> uncomfortable. Also the 'drop it' scene where the guard drops the
> donut is an instant classic. And of course tommy-lee jones' character
> is funny throughout the whole film (his '50 seconds and i'm coming up'
> scene is my favorite).
>
> To me both films are very similar, with the perfect mix of over the
> top humor and serious drama as one of the many similarities.
>
> --
> jeroen -- the netherlands -- http://www.xs4all.nl/~nbk94
> aLL OVER ME hEAVENLY CREATURES jUDE lEON nBK
>
> --------------- MESSAGE heavenly-c.v001.n912.10 ---------------
>
> From: ~lyric~ <dalyric@writeme.com>
> Subject: Re: Should I be Committed?
> Date: Mon, 07 Sep 1998 09:48:30 +0000
> MIME-Version: 1.0
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
> Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
> References: <199809062259.PAA14954@lists1.best.com>
>
> Diello833@aol.com wrote:
> >
> > Since I'm fairly new to the list, I wanted ask your opinions on
something. In
> > some sort of strange, twisted way, I kind of take Heavenly
Creatures as a
> > comedy.
>
> I wouldn't want to label it a 'comedy' but there are defenately a lot
of
> funny scenes. That's what I like about this film, the different
emotions
> it brings up. One moment I'm rolling on the floor laughing out loud,
and
> the next moment I'm crying...
> The Donkey Serenade brings a BIG smile on my face, so does the chase
by
> Orson Welles! Anyway, what I wanted to say is that the scenes, and the
> wonderful acting make me laugh. But the story as a whole doesn't...
>
> Take care,
> Marloes
>
> --------------- END heavenly-c.v001.n912 ---------------
--------------- MESSAGE heavenly-c.v001.n913.10 ---------------
From: "Marie Braden" <braden@msw0.attnet.or.jp>
Subject: RE: Should I be Committed?
Date: Tue, 8 Sep 1998 06:56:38 +0900
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Content-Type: text/plain;
charset="iso-8859-1"
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In-Reply-To: <199809062259.PAA14954@lists1.best.com>
>
> Since I'm fairly new to the list, I wanted ask your opinions on
> something. In
> some sort of strange, twisted way, I kind of take Heavenly Creatures
as a
> comedy. The same way films like A Clockwork Orange, Natural Born
Killers,
> Pulp Fiction, Fargo and others are comedies (I'm sorry to use
> such 'cliche'
> films as examples, but I can't think of any other such films off
> the top of my
> head). Yes, HC is also a drama, a tragedy, and a thriller, but the
whole
> absurdity (if there is such a word) of it makes it amusing. I
Can't agree. There are funny moments, yes, but it would be difficult to
understand the girls' friendship if they DIDN'T ever have any fun.
The classic definition of tragedy is of someone noble being brought
down by
a tragic flaw---and by that definition, all three of the Hulmes get it.
Pauline, too, because she tries very hard to be one of them......
Comedy? No. I can't agree with that in the modern sense, but in the
classic sense, it was basically anything that WASN'T a tragedy, and
generally involved the common man....so in that sense, yes.
I admit, some of my favorite scenes are the funny ones, but they stick
out
like jewels in the "unbearable tedium" that looks like Pauline felt her
life
to be.
--------------- END heavenly-c.v001.n913 ---------------
Date:
Tue, 8 Sep 1998 14:14:13 -0700 (PDT)
From:
heavenly-c-errors@lists.best.com Add to Address Book
Subject:
Digest heavenly-c.v001.n914
Reply-To:
heavenly-c@lists.best.com
To:
heavenly-c@lists.best.com
-------------- BEGIN heavenly-c.v001.n914 --------------
001 - Phil West <pgw16@hermes.c - RE: Should I be Committed?
002 - "E. Jean Guerin" <orson@v - Re: Should I be Committed?
003 - "E. Jean Guerin" <orson@v - Re: Should I be Committed?
004 - Phil West <pgw16@hermes.c - Re: Should I be Committed?
005 - Laurin McNiff <englishpat - Re: Should I be Committed?
006 - Laurin McNiff <englishpat - Re: No thanks necessary/kate_mel
list
007 - "Eileene Coscolluela" <ec - Re: Should I be Committed?
008 - Laurin McNiff <englishpat - Re: Should I be Committed?
009 - "Eileene Coscolluela" <ec - Re: Should I be Committed?
010 - "Marie Braden" <braden@ms - RE: Should I be Committed?
--------------- MESSAGE heavenly-c.v001.n914.1 ---------------
From: Phil West <pgw16@hermes.cam.ac.uk>
Subject: RE: Should I be Committed?
Date: Mon, 7 Sep 1998 23:27:27 +0100 (BST)
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII
In-Reply-To: <199809072147.OAA07115@lists1.best.com>
On Tue, 8 Sep 1998, Marie Braden wrote:
> The classic definition of tragedy is of someone noble being brought
down by
> a tragic flaw
Aristotle called it 'hamartia': Macbeth's ambition, Antony's love,
Othello's jealousy and so forth. Later tragedy (Ibsen, Strindberg,
Miller) tends to be less concerned with the individual, and returns to
themes of waste and futility which dominate some Greek tragedies.
The greatest tragedian of the 20th century - Samuel Beckett - was also
one
of its funniest playwrights.
> ---and by that definition, all three of the Hulmes get it.
When are the Hulmes noble, though? The parents are pretty seedy from
the
beginning: snobbish, selfish, superficial unconcerned for their
daughter.
The NZ cut includes scenes in which Dr Hulme becomes a more sympathetic,
tragic figure, it's true: we see him weep and break down, and seem
pathetic. But never grand or noble. Only Pauline thinks he is the
'noblest and most wonderful person' she has ever known; and this at a
time
when he is coming apart at the tweedy seams.
> Comedy? No. I can't agree with that in the modern sense, but in the
> classic sense, it was basically anything that WASN'T a tragedy, and
> generally involved the common man....
Yeah, comedy is 'low', while tragedy is 'high'... interesting... HC kind
of reverses the roles. Pauline is the lower class hero, and should
therefore be comic, but ends up as a tragic heroine; and the upper class
tragedy that is Juliet provides us with the initial humour in the film.
So a comedy begins with an upper class hero, Juliet; then it becomes a
lower class tragedy with Pauline at the centre. Have to think about
that
one.
> so in that sense, yes. I admit, some of my favorite scenes are the
> funny ones, but they stick out like jewels in the "unbearable tedium"
> that looks like Pauline felt her life to be.
I agree totally with the idea that HC is about Pauline's desire to
escape,
from, among many things, the tedium of the office job or teacher's life
that her parents wanted for her. In this sense, she focuses feelings
many
people feel, I guess. The humour is dark and, I think, not comedic,
because it is only a temporary escape, and paid for later on.
See you all in a fortnight,
Phil
--------------- MESSAGE heavenly-c.v001.n914.2 ---------------
From: "E. Jean Guerin" <orson@videotron.ca>
Subject: Re: Should I be Committed?
Date: Mon, 07 Sep 1998 19:05:41 -0400
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
mailcall wrote:
>i laughed my head off at some scenes.
Oh! There are some light moments in HC. This is what makes the ending
so
powerful (How could somebody so sympathetic as these two girls commit
such an atrocious act?). Life is made of bitter and sweet times.
Even while watching the rushes, we were laughing at "You've been eating
onions".
Pauline (Mel) says it best "It's a three part opera with a tragic end".
(:^)]
--------------- MESSAGE heavenly-c.v001.n914.3 ---------------
From: "E. Jean Guerin" <orson@videotron.ca>
Subject: Re: Should I be Committed?
Date: Mon, 07 Sep 1998 19:07:40 -0400
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
Phil West wrote:
>to watch Diello being squashed
That was Charles. Diello is the one dropping the gate on him.
(:^)]
--------------- MESSAGE heavenly-c.v001.n914.4 ---------------
From: Phil West <pgw16@hermes.cam.ac.uk>
Subject: Re: Should I be Committed?
Date: Tue, 8 Sep 1998 00:26:11 +0100 (BST)
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII
In-Reply-To: <199809072303.QAA22134@lists1.best.com>
>
> >to watch Diello being squashed
>
> That was Charles. Diello is the one dropping the gate on him.
my mistake,! - (but hey, wasn't it Nicholas, not Charles!)
et maintenant, enfin, au revoir les anges,
Phil
--------------- MESSAGE heavenly-c.v001.n914.5 ---------------
From: Laurin McNiff <englishpatient@home.com>
Subject: Re: Should I be Committed?
Date: Mon, 07 Sep 1998 20:28:08 -0700
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
References: <199809062259.PAA14954@lists1.best.com>
> The same way films like A Clockwork Orange, Natural Born Killers..
Was I the only one that thought A Clockwork Orange was a sincerely
strange, grotesque drama and NOT a comedy?
Regards,
Laurin
--------------- MESSAGE heavenly-c.v001.n914.6 ---------------
From: Laurin McNiff <englishpatient@home.com>
Subject: Re: No thanks necessary/kate_mel list
Date: Tue, 08 Sep 1998 00:47:08 -0700
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
References: <199808141755.KAA14619@lists1.best.com>
Sharon/Creatures,
Yes, the kate/mel list is still up and running, things
are just a bit slow these days..I run the list, and I just recently
checked-all the subscribers are still with the list, so, it's most
likely just a backup or busy schedule that's making the list seem dead.
Regards,
Laurin
--------------- MESSAGE heavenly-c.v001.n914.7 ---------------
From: "Eileene Coscolluela" <ecoscolluela@kinderhook.com>
Subject: Re: Should I be Committed?
Date: Tue, 8 Sep 1998 10:18:56 -0400
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Disposition: inline
> Was I the only one that thought A Clockwork Orange was a sincerely
> strange, grotesque drama and NOT a comedy?
Well, it is srange and grotesque, but I found it hilariously funny in
some
parts. Like Heavenly Creatures. HC isn't a comedy but it is funny in
some
parts. They are both strange films and have a tinge of the grotesque.
Eileene =)
iko@woolgathering.net
www.woolgathering.net
PS -- Read Anthony Burgess' "A Clockwork Orange". It is an excellent
novel.
--------------- MESSAGE heavenly-c.v001.n914.8 ---------------
From: Laurin McNiff <englishpatient@home.com>
Subject: Re: Should I be Committed?
Date: Tue, 08 Sep 1998 15:39:36 -0700
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
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References: <199809081419.HAA21248@lists1.best.com>
> Like Heavenly Creatures. HC isn't a comedy but it is funny
> in some parts. They are both strange films and have a tinge of
> the grotesque.
HC is in my opinion completely different. HC was not NEARLY as grotesque
and strange as "A Clockwork Orange". Neither film can be described to me
as a "comedy"..
Regards,
Laurin
--------------- MESSAGE heavenly-c.v001.n914.9 ---------------
From: "Eileene Coscolluela" <ecoscolluela@kinderhook.com>
Subject: Re: Should I be Committed?
Date: Tue, 8 Sep 1998 15:15:17 -0400
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Disposition: inline
Laurin wrote:
> HC is in my opinion completely different. HC was not NEARLY as
grotesque
> and strange as "A Clockwork Orange". Neither film can be described to
me
> as a "comedy"..
I look at it this way:
A Clockwork Orange is pure fantasy, something that Burgess
created out of his own mind. I've created worse imagery in my own head
than what is depicted in ACO, so I don't see it as all that "strange".
If
it really happened, it would be a completely different story...
Heavenly Creatures is based on a true story, where someone was
really killed in a brutal fashion. To me, it is grotesque that two
creative, intelligent young ladies could do something so irrational and
horrific.
They are grotesque and strange in different ways. Perhaps I don't
find ACO so shocking because I watched it when I was MUCH younger (I was
introduced to the film when I was in elementary school after reading the
novel) and the message of the story is moving and provocative for me.
In
the end, though, it's still just fiction.
Eileene =)
iko@woolgathering.net
www.woolgathering.net
--------------- MESSAGE heavenly-c.v001.n914.10 ---------------
From: "Marie Braden" <braden@msw0.attnet.or.jp>
Subject: RE: Should I be Committed?
Date: Wed, 9 Sep 1998 05:56:11 +0900
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain;
charset="iso-8859-1"
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In-Reply-To: <199809072227.PAA03928@lists1.best.com>
>
> When are the Hulmes noble, though? The parents are pretty seedy from
the
> beginning: snobbish, selfish, superficial unconcerned for their
daughter.
Noble in the sense of nobility, not actions. They are fairly high up on
the
social ladder, after all.
> Yeah, comedy is 'low', while tragedy is 'high'... interesting... HC
kind
> of reverses the roles. Pauline is the lower class hero, and should
> therefore be comic, but ends up as a tragic heroine; and the upper
class
> tragedy that is Juliet provides us with the initial humour in the
film.
> So a comedy begins with an upper class hero, Juliet; then it becomes a
> lower class tragedy with Pauline at the centre. Have to think about
that
> one.
That is an interesting comment......I'll have to think about it too....
--------------- END heavenly-c.v001.n914 ---------------
Date:
Wed, 9 Sep 1998 10:07:54 -0700 (PDT)
From:
heavenly-c-errors@lists.best.com Add to Address Book
Subject:
Digest heavenly-c.v001.n915
Reply-To:
heavenly-c@lists.best.com
To:
heavenly-c@lists.best.com
-------------- BEGIN heavenly-c.v001.n915 --------------
001 - "E. Jean Guerin" <orson@v - Re: Should I be Committed?
002 - Diello833@aol.com - Re: Should I be Committed?
003 - "E. Jean Guerin" <orson@v - Re: Should I be Committed?
004 - Bettina.Hahn@t-online.de - Re: unsubscribe
005 - nbk94@xs4all.nl (jeroen) - Re: Should I be Committed?
006 - ~lyric~ <dalyric@writeme. - Re: unsubscribe
007 - "Eileene Coscolluela" <ec - Re: Should I be Committed?
008 - Adit <adit@main.aquanet.c - Kate & Leo again
009 - "E. Jean Guerin" <orson@v - Re: Should I be Committed?
010 - "E. Jean Guerin" <orson@v - Clockwork Creatures(Re: Should I
be Committed?)
--------------- MESSAGE heavenly-c.v001.n915.1 ---------------
From: "E. Jean Guerin" <orson@videotron.ca>
Subject: Re: Should I be Committed?
Date: Tue, 08 Sep 1998 18:52:33 -0400
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
Eileene Coscolluela wrote:
>A Clockwork Orange is pure fantasy, something that Burgess
>created out of his own mind.
Actually, ACO derived from an incident where Burgess' wife was
assaulted.
From that, the writer extrapolated. It's an anti-utopian fantasy with
very real roots.
(:^)]
--------------- MESSAGE heavenly-c.v001.n915.2 ---------------
From: Diello833@aol.com
Subject: Re: Should I be Committed?
Date: Tue, 8 Sep 1998 19:27:04 EDT
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
In a message dated 9/8/98 2:31:25 PM Central Daylight Time,
ecoscolluela@kinderhook.com writes:
<< I look at it this way:
A Clockwork Orange is pure fantasy, something that Burgess
created out of his own mind. I've created worse imagery in my own head
than what is depicted in ACO, so I don't see it as all that "strange".
If
it really happened, it would be a completely different story...
>>
You're right, its based totally in fantasy (although it was inspired by
a real
incident). But it is in some sense a satire, along the lines of
Fahrenheit
451, Brave New World, 1984, et al. They may take place in fantasy
worlds but
are very based in reality. And in a different way than a typical
comedy, a
satire's main point is (usually) to show something that is so fantastic
or
absurd yet at the same time accurately portrays current society. In
this way,
ACO and HC are quite similar. Although HC is based on a true story,
both it
and ACO show the results of a society that doesn't quite know how to
deal with
some of its children.
And I want to clear something up. I never meant to classify HC as a
comedy.
It is many things, comedy being one. I wasn't trying to say that all
the
video stores in the world should take it out of the drama or suspense
sections
and move it to the comedy section. I just meant that on some strange
and
twisted level, I find myself amused by the antics (not the murder
committed
by) of Pauline & Juliet.
Paul
--------------- MESSAGE heavenly-c.v001.n915.3 ---------------
From: "E. Jean Guerin" <orson@videotron.ca>
Subject: Re: Should I be Committed?
Date: Tue, 08 Sep 1998 23:29:24 -0400
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
Diello833@aol.com wrote:
>You're right, its based totally in fantasy (although it was inspired
by a
>real
>incident).
In my own very humble opinion (truly I cannot speak for Fran & Peter's
intents), I find HC to be one of those stories about the clash between
fantasy and reality and how it affects the life of the person doing the
fantasizing.
Other films with this shift between fantasy and reality are Brazil
(which
is a fantasy about a person who fantasizes), Naked Lunch (could HC be
to
Anne Perry what NL is to William Burroughs? Perhaps this parallel
applies
to Pauline as the writer.) It even applies to NBK as Mike and maddy are
using guns instead of typewriters and plasticine to create their art.
(That oughta make Jeroen smile)
An interesting variant is the Ray Bradbury story "The Banshee" where RB
disposed of (a thinly veiled stand-in for ) John Houston on paper as a
way of ridding himself of the nightmares he kept getting after working
with him on "Moby Dick". Now imagine if Bradbury had not only written
that story but ended up murdering Houston as well.
(:^)]
--------------- MESSAGE heavenly-c.v001.n915.4 ---------------
From: Bettina.Hahn@t-online.de (Bettina.Hahn)
Subject: Re: unsubscribe
Date: Wed, 9 Sep 1998 06:47:51 +0200
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8BIT
References: <199809070743.AAA17520@lists1.best.com>
<199809071826.LAA29427@lists1.best.com>
I tried to unsubscribe once, and I had some troubles as well, but I
think the
solution is to write as subject UNSUBSCRIBE, in capital letters! I
guess thatīs
the problem. At least, after some failures, I got unsubscribed!
But remember: Do not write to the mailinglist, but to
heavenly-c-errors@lists.best.com
if Iīm not wrong....try it this way!
regards, Bettina
--------------- MESSAGE heavenly-c.v001.n915.5 ---------------
From: nbk94@xs4all.nl (jeroen)
Subject: Re: Should I be Committed?
Date: Wed, 09 Sep 1998 09:30:23 GMT
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit
References: <199809090325.UAA02092@lists1.best.com>
In-Reply-To: <199809090325.UAA02092@lists1.best.com>
On Tue, 08 Sep 1998 23:29:24 -0400, "E. Jean Guerin"
<orson@videotron.ca> wrote:
>It even applies to NBK as Mike and maddy are
>using guns instead of typewriters and plasticine to create their art.
>(That oughta make Jeroen smile)
You always make me smile jean, see :)
Some appropriate oliver stone quotes from the NBK director's cut ld
interview (quoting from memory):
'I expressed myself like a painter, by throwing paint at a canvas'.
'I felt like let's just blow it out of the end of a shotgun fuck it'.
And this one is for jean:
'Our initial plan was to make a summer action movie, something arnold
schwarzenegger would be proud of'.
Btw i just learned something new while watching NBK last night. The
sounds of the snakes biting mickey are actually gunshots played
backwards, symbolizing the turnpoint in the story. Just thought i'd
share this with you, since there is no NBK list.
Thank you drive through.
--
jeroen -- the netherlands -- http://www.xs4all.nl/~nbk94
aLL OVER ME hEAVENLY CREATURES jUDE lEON nBK
--------------- MESSAGE heavenly-c.v001.n915.6 ---------------
From: ~lyric~ <dalyric@writeme.com>
Subject: Re: unsubscribe
Date: Wed, 09 Sep 1998 12:34:46 +0000
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8BIT
References: <199809070743.AAA17520@lists1.best.com>
<199809071826.LAA29427@lists1.best.com>
<199809090450.VAA16836@lists1.best.com>
Hmmm...I think it doesn't have to do anything with the capitals, nor the
subject box.
You should write to heavenly-c-request@lists.best.com and put
unsubscribe in the lower box. Just that, nothing more, the subjectbox
should be empty... I unsubscribed and subscribed a lot of times when I
was having problems a few weeks ago...it worked for me!
Take care
Marloes
Bettina.Hahn wrote:
>
> I tried to unsubscribe once, and I had some troubles as well, but I
think the
> solution is to write as subject UNSUBSCRIBE, in capital letters! I
guess thatīs
> the problem. At least, after some failures, I got unsubscribed!
> But remember: Do not write to the mailinglist, but to
> heavenly-c-errors@lists.best.com
> if Iīm not wrong....try it this way!
> regards, Bettina
--------------- MESSAGE heavenly-c.v001.n915.7 ---------------
From: "Eileene Coscolluela" <ecoscolluela@kinderhook.com>
Subject: Re: Should I be Committed?
Date: Wed, 9 Sep 1998 09:02:37 -0400
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Disposition: inline
Jean wrote:
> Actually, ACO derived from an incident where Burgess' wife was
assaulted.
> From that, the writer extrapolated. It's an anti-utopian fantasy with
> very real roots.
Really?
That's a really far extrapolation, atleast, it goes beyond the
concept
of an assault.
It's still far more fantastic than Heavenly Creatures is, IMHO.
Eileene =)
iko@woolgathering.net
www.woolgathering.net
--------------- MESSAGE heavenly-c.v001.n915.8 ---------------
From: Adit <adit@main.aquanet.co.il>
Subject: Kate & Leo again
Date: Wed, 09 Sep 1998 16:35:15 +0200
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boundary="------------DD42A2B90502C962F605B3E7"
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Did you hear that Kate Winslet and Leonardo Dicaprio are going to be on
the next James Cameron movie? This is what I read: (I translated it from
hebrew and I might have a few mistakes- but this is the main idea)
The director of "Titanic", James Cameron doesn't want to take any risks.
That's why he asked the cast of his Oscar loaded film to play in his new
movie. Leonardo Dicaprio and Kate Winslet will have the main roles in a
new version for the classic "The Star Of Monkeys" (I'm not sure this is
its name in English). Its still unknown whether Winslet and Dicaprio
will play people or monkeys...
What do you think about that?
Adit
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<HTML>
Did you hear that Kate Winslet and Leonardo Dicaprio are going to be on
the next James Cameron movie? This is what I read: (I translated it from
hebrew and I might have a few mistakes- but this is the main idea)
<P>The director of "Titanic", James Cameron doesn't want to take any
risks.
That's why he asked the cast of his Oscar loaded film to play in his new
movie. Leonardo Dicaprio and Kate Winslet will have the main roles in a
new version for the classic "The Star Of Monkeys" (I'm not sure this is
its name in English). Its still unknown whether Winslet and Dicaprio
will
play people or monkeys...
<P>What do you think about that?
<CENTER><B>Adit</B></CENTER>
</HTML>
--------------DD42A2B90502C962F605B3E7--
--------------- MESSAGE heavenly-c.v001.n915.9 ---------------
From: "E. Jean Guerin" <orson@videotron.ca>
Subject: Re: Should I be Committed?
Date: Wed, 09 Sep 1998 13:02:46 -0400
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
Eileene Coscolluela wrote:
>> Actually, ACO derived from an incident where Burgess' wife was
assaulted.
>> From that, the writer extrapolated. It's an anti-utopian fantasy with
>> very real roots.
>
> Really?
> That's a really far extrapolation, atleast, it goes beyond the
concept
>of an assault.
I didn't want to get into the details but the scene of the writer's
(Mr.
Alexander played by Patrick Magee) wife being raped is eerily close to
what happened to Burgess's wife in real life. During the WWII London
blackout, 3 AWOL GI's vandalized and robbed his home and proceeded to
rape and brutally beat Burgess' pregnant wife. She lost her baby and
the
internal injuries led to a steady decline in her health and her own
death
at age 40. The title of the piece he was working at the time of the
assault was "A Clockwork Orange". In 1961 he used it as the title of
the
novel we know which he wrote as "an exorcism". The incident made him
wonder what the world was coming to. You can argue that Burgess foresaw
the punk movement.
Later Burgess wrote a novel called "Beard's Roman Women" (1976) about
an
widowed author being haunted by insistent phone calls from his dead
wife.
(:^)]
--------------- MESSAGE heavenly-c.v001.n915.10 ---------------
From: "E. Jean Guerin" <orson@videotron.ca>
Subject: Clockwork Creatures(Re: Should I be Committed?)
Date: Wed, 09 Sep 1998 13:10:03 -0400
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
Eileene Coscolluela wrote:
>It's still far more fantastic than Heavenly Creatures is, IMHO.
Absolutely. "A Clockwork Orange" is what derived from the incident. A
movie based on Anthony Burgess's real life that would flip flop into
exerpts of ACO would be on the level of HC "fantasy wise".
Another film to add to our growing list of "reality and fantasy mix
taking us inside an artist's mind" genre is Paul Shrader's MISHIMA. In
this film the narrative goes from the events of the Japanese novelist
and
playwright Mishima's last day to flashbacks (in B&W) to dramatized
exerpts of his work.
(:^)]
--------------- END heavenly-c.v001.n915 ---------------
Date:
Thu, 10 Sep 1998 11:22:53 -0700 (PDT)
From:
heavenly-c-errors@lists.best.com Add to Address Book
Subject:
Digest heavenly-c.v001.n916
Reply-To:
heavenly-c@lists.best.com
To:
heavenly-c@lists.best.com
-------------- BEGIN heavenly-c.v001.n916 --------------
001 - RUbabes@aol.com - Re: Unsubscribing (NEW INFO)
002 - "Laura" <laura@pointlomac - UNSUBSCRIBE
003 - "Laura" <laura@pointlomac - Fw: UNSUBSCRIBE
004 - crystal <beckwith@Oswego. - Miramax letter (fwd)
005 - Bao Ly <Refuse_to_be_burn - HeavenlyWeb Status - Opens 9/19/98
006 - Diello833@aol.com - Re: Kate & Leo again
007 - nbk94@xs4all.nl (jeroen) - Re: Miramax letter (fwd)
008 - Christy Price <christy@ty - Where to Subscribe
009 - "Jose Antonio Abad Trillo - I saw it again
010 - "Jose Antonio Abad Trillo - HC Laserdisc extinct!
--------------- MESSAGE heavenly-c.v001.n916.1 ---------------
From: RUbabes@aol.com
Subject: Re: Unsubscribing (NEW INFO)
Date: Wed, 9 Sep 1998 14:16:45 EDT
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
Hello Creatures,
I'm still catching up big time...but, am enjoying the ACO/HC
conversation...hmmm. When I get a logical "two cents" together I'll
contribute...
Anyway...I just read yesterday on the Kate Winslet Show's Message Board
that
all unsubscription inquiries should be directed towards the webmaster
of that
site, Bao.
The KWS is hosting Brian Woodworth's site now, but is currently
switching
hosts and both pages are not really running for another 10 days or so.
Here's what Bao had to say:
<<Hi everyone,
I am sorry to announced that KWS will not be back up and running until
Sept.
18th or thereabouts. We bought a new server and migrated everything from
Apache to Windows NT (for future development of ASP scripting, in
addition to
Perl). We will leased a direct line as soon as the money situtation is
taken
off.
In the meanwhile, we are working on redesigning the site, adding
contents and
features, and basically ''updating it''. It has been a very slow and
difficult
process I have to admit - 'grunt' work as well as 'creative' work.
We need assitance with the Articles and Gallery sections in particular
- which
will need major reinnovations and updates. If you would like to help us
out or
contribute materials, drop me a line at info@reflection.org. I believe
it will
all be worth in the end. Pheeew! :)
Bao
KWS Webmaster
P.S. We are also hosting Bryan Woodworth's HeavenlyWeb website
(http://www.reflection.org/heavenly) on our server and I apologize that
it has
also been down. It should be back up the same time The Kate Winslet
Show is
back up and running. If you need to subscribe or unsubscribe to the
Heavenly
Creatures mailing list, you may direct your emails to me for the time
being if
needed. >>
Bao's e-mail is info@reflection.org
-Jesse :)
PS...Sorry Bao if I'm stepping on toes...dunno if you're still on this
list or
not! :) Talk Soon...lots to catch up on. :)
--------------- MESSAGE heavenly-c.v001.n916.2 ---------------
From: "Laura" <laura@pointlomachurch.org>
Subject: UNSUBSCRIBE
Date: Wed, 9 Sep 1998 11:17:38 -0700
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: multipart/alternative;
boundary="----=_NextPart_000_002B_01BDDBE3.73F77BE0"
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charset="iso-8859-1"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
UNSUBSCRIBE
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charset="iso-8859-1"
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--------------- MESSAGE heavenly-c.v001.n916.3 ---------------
From: "Laura" <laura@pointlomachurch.org>
Subject: Fw: UNSUBSCRIBE
Date: Wed, 9 Sep 1998 12:00:10 -0700
MIME-Version: 1.0
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-----Original Message-----
From: Laura <laura@pointlomachurch.org>
To: heavenly-c@lists.best.com <heavenly-c@lists.best.com>
Date: Wednesday, September 09, 1998 11:50 AM
Subject: UNSUBSCRIBE
UNSUBSCRIBE
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http-equiv=3DContent-Type><!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD W3 =
HTML//EN">
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</HEAD>
<BODY bgColor=3D#ffffff>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2><B>-----Original =
Message-----</B><BR><B>From:=20
</B>Laura <<A=20
href=3D"mailto:laura@pointlomachurch.org">laura@pointlomachurch.org</A>&g=
t;<BR><B>To:=20
</B><A =
href=3D"mailto:heavenly-c@lists.best.com">heavenly-c@lists.best.com</A>=20
<<A=20
href=3D"mailto:heavenly-c@lists.best.com">heavenly-c@lists.best.com</A>&g=
t;<BR><B>Date:=20
</B>Wednesday, September 09, 1998 11:50 AM<BR><B>Subject:=20
</B>UNSUBSCRIBE<BR><BR></DIV></FONT>
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--------------- MESSAGE heavenly-c.v001.n916.4 ---------------
From: crystal <beckwith@Oswego.EDU>
Subject: Miramax letter (fwd)
Date: Wed, 9 Sep 1998 15:10:24 -0400 (EDT)
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit
Hello everyone,
A fellow listmate from the Kate Winslet Hotline list is writing a letter
to Miramax about a possible rerelease of Heavenly Creatures that
includes
all the original content. She has asked me to forward it on to all of
you
in the hopes that maybe some of you would like to add your name to it.
I'm
sending you all a copy of the letter that she plans on sending out and
if
you would indeed like you name attached email Sarah at
anto1396@hotmail.com, make sure to include your full name and what list
you're from (this request is also being sent to other lists) and write
"letter" as the subject. Thanx.
Crystal
Sarah Antolini
79 Central Avenue
Fredonia, NY 14063
Miramax Inc.
375 Greenwich Street
New York, NY 10013
To Whom It May Concern:
I am writing on behalf of the Kate Winslet Hotline Mailing List
concerning the re-release of Peter Jacksons 1994 cult classic,
Heavenly Creatures. Heavenly Creatures premiered in Wellington, New
Zealand on October 14, 1994, with a running time of 109 minutes.
However, when the movie was released for worldwide (and later, video)
distribution, it carried a total running time of only 99 minutes.
Apparently, someone thought it necessary to edit out 10 minutes of film
-- 10 minutes of film that we, as fans and critics, deem critical to
the
understanding and general flow of the movie. These scenes add
considerable information and subtext and their absence change the film
noticeably -- right down to the final moments. We would like Miramax to
give the rest of the world the chance to do what currently only New
Zealand residents can; be able to walk into a video store and find an
uncut, full-screen Heavenly Creatures movie that uses the entire film
frame (unlike the 3/5 film frame used in the previous release). Its
that simple. I have provided, for your convenience, a list of the
deleted scenes that we would like to see restored:
Two scenes of the Avon River and Christchurch's cyclists are deleted
from the newsreel prologue (total time 49 seconds)
The drive to Port Levy as the Hulmes and Pauline sing "How Much Is That
Doggy In The Window". (40 seconds)
Hilda Hulme refers to the girls as "my two daughters" outside the
holiday home in Port Levy (not timed)
Helicopter shot of Pauline pursuing Juliet over the hills (10 seconds)
Sanitarium patient coughs bloody sputum into cup (2 seconds)
Borovnian is more graphically cleft in two by castle gate (1 second)
After Juliet picks up the gem stone a shot is shown of the two girls
dressed as princesses on a Borovnian balcony raising their chalices in
a
toast and then "morphing" into their clay-sculpted figurines before
cutting to the shots of "brown" and "gray" eyes. Pauline's verse refers
to watching "the race of men
decay and change". (10 seconds)
The girls fantasize about love scenes with James Mason and Mel Ferrer
after stealing the family silver. Juliet says they can simply murder
any
odd wives that might get in their way. (26 seconds)
A garden party at the Hulmes has Hilda and Bill Perry playing tennis as
the girls roam the shrubbery consuming wine and grapes. They hurl a
rock
in the stream to soak Pauline's psychiatrists trousers. A flashback
shows Hilda at dinner suggesting Bill stay with them to recuperate and
Juliets romantic
vision of his arrival by ambulance segues into drab reality as he is
shown to the servants quarters. Before a disciplinary committee Mr.
Hulme is given until the end of the year to resign his post and is seen
weeping alone in his armchair as Hilda and Bill's laughter is heard
from
another room while they continue their affair. (3 minutes 40 seconds)
Hilda, upon being caught in bed with Bill, insists she was merely
bringing him a cup of tea (10 seconds)
Pauline imagines her mother choking and her father impaling himself on
a
knife at the dinner table. (1 minute 24 seconds)
The girls bedroom scene (A night with the saints) shows a banner S-I-N
unfurling and later bursting forth with blood. Borvnian peasants cheer
the girls on from outside the window. (10 seconds)
Paulines final cry "NO" with her bloodied visage is seen in the final
shot. The US version only features her cry on the soundtrack after
fading to black. (3 seconds)
Why should Miramax release Heavenly Creatures in its entirety? First
of
all, due to James Camerons Titanic, Kate Winslet has become an
international star. Those fans who have recently "discovered" Kate
want
to view her earlier work, including Creatures, which is considered
among
many to be her best role to date. Second, re-releases, especially
those
that include extra footage, are a proven way to attract new attention
(and more importantly, new sales) to previously released film. Fans of
both the movie and Kate Winslet will jump at the chance to own what is
considered to be the "holy grail" -- the original version of Heavenly
Creatures.
I, the members of the Kate Winslet Hotline Mailing List, and other Kate
Winslet/ Heavenly Creatures fans around the world, STRONGLY urge you to
do whatever necessary to put the uncut version of Heavenly Creatures
out
in the market. Demand is at a high, Kate Winslet is riding a wave of
popularity -- nows the time to act!!
Thank you for your attention on this matter.
Sincerely,
Sarah Antolini
Cosigned by fellow members of the Kate Winslet Hotline Mailing List:
Crystal Beckwith Sarah Packard
Katerine Bellantoni Don Rightmyer
Julia Brinckloe Kristine Roeder
William T. Cussings Kristen E. Schwarz
Michael C. Falciani Cara Sottak
Juli Gilliam Tim Zajac
Ryan Hrabec
Michael J. Jaski
Rachel Klasner
______________________________________________________
Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com
--------------- MESSAGE heavenly-c.v001.n916.5 ---------------
From: Bao Ly <Refuse_to_be_burnt_out@reflection.org>
Subject: HeavenlyWeb Status - Opens 9/19/98
Date: Wed, 09 Sep 1998 12:20:23 -0700
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
Hello Creatures,
Sorry for the delays, but it look like **HeavenlyWeb will back online
9/19/98**! The new location is at: http://www.reflection.org/heavenly
so bookmark it.
This is date **The Kate Winslet Show** is expected to be available
also. Drop by and check out all the new stuff and send us some
feedback. I'm sure there will be many KW fans on the message board and
chat rooms - which are open to HC discussions of course. Plus there
will be a fully illustrated HC script in .pdf available (reprinted from
Scenario, hmm). We're planning to put up a database of articles
developed in ASP, many of which are HC articles I've collected and
received over the years.
As a treat, here is a lengthy article "If Michael Focault Had Seen Peter
Jackson's Heavenly Creatures" from the New Zealand Journal of Media
Studies in Acrobat format (http://jaolu.simplenet.com/Nzjournal.pdf).
If I recall correctly, thank you to Pam Acree for sending me a copy!
And Jefferson Morris for helping me with the layout. (Warning: I
believe a few of the footnotes maybe inaccurate). I hope you all enjoy
the read!
I've been occupied with school and personal life so I haven't had time
to keep in touch - produce a bunch of HC documents and media - as I had
planned. Anyway, I'm graduating this semester and looking forward to
joining the working class soon. It still **nice** to be on the list
after all this time, even in a lurking state.
Long live Borovnia! :)
Bao
--------------- MESSAGE heavenly-c.v001.n916.6 ---------------
From: Diello833@aol.com
Subject: Re: Kate & Leo again
Date: Wed, 9 Sep 1998 18:50:00 EDT
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
In a message dated 9/9/98 9:50:19 AM Central Daylight Time,
adit@main.aquanet.co.il writes:
<< The director of "Titanic", James Cameron doesn't want to take any
risks.
That's why he asked the cast of his Oscar loaded film to play in his
new
movie. Leonardo Dicaprio and Kate Winslet will have the main roles in a
new version for the classic "The Star Of Monkeys" (I'm not sure this is
its name in English). Its still unknown whether Winslet and Dicaprio
will play people or monkeys...
>>
Well, there has been a rumor that Cameron was going to remake Planet of
the
Apes with Arnold Schwarzenegger in the Charlton Heston role, and maybe
that's
where the 'Star of Monkeys' is coming from. And Kate has said in public
interviews that the only way she would work for Cameron again is if she
got A
LOT of money.
Paul
--------------- MESSAGE heavenly-c.v001.n916.7 ---------------
From: nbk94@xs4all.nl (jeroen)
Subject: Re: Miramax letter (fwd)
Date: Thu, 10 Sep 1998 08:49:08 GMT
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit
References: <199809091912.MAA27774@lists1.best.com>
In-Reply-To: <199809091912.MAA27774@lists1.best.com>
On Wed, 9 Sep 1998 15:10:24 -0400 (EDT), crystal <beckwith@Oswego.EDU>
wrote:
>A fellow listmate from the Kate Winslet Hotline list is writing a
letter
>to Miramax about a possible rerelease of Heavenly Creatures that
includes
>all the original content. She has asked me to forward it on to all of
you
I'm no expert on this, but why is this letter addressed to miramax? I
mean they only have the rights for US distribution and nothing else.
What i'm trying to say is that the message could just as well have
been addressed to any other distributor hoping they will release the
NZ cut, right?
Wasn't there a rumour a while ago that criterion was going to release
the SE on laserdisc with commentary etc?
In fact i hate to see miramax release HC on dvd, as i'm sure they will
fuck it up big time like all other disney dvd's: no extra's and not
16:9 enhanced.
--
jeroen -- the netherlands -- http://www.xs4all.nl/~nbk94
aLL OVER ME hEAVENLY CREATURES jUDE lEON nBK
--------------- MESSAGE heavenly-c.v001.n916.8 ---------------
From: Christy Price <christy@tyler.net>
Subject: Where to Subscribe
Date: Thu, 10 Sep 1998 12:21:01 -0700
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit
I can't recall where I found the page to subscribe to this list...can
someone help me? I would like to put a link to it on my page..whenever
I can find the time to edit my page that is
--------------- MESSAGE heavenly-c.v001.n916.9 ---------------
From: "Jose Antonio Abad Trillo" <jabad@softtek.com>
Subject: I saw it again
Date: Wed, 10 Sep 1997 12:40:24 -0600
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit
Hello fellow Creatures:
Last night I saw HC again. It has been nearly three months since the
last time. I was shocked because I forgot how intense is the entrance
when Juliete and Pauline are running to the coffee shop. Immediately I
felt a knot in my throat. I was alone with my dog. My wife is now
visiting my mother in law so I had the whole movie just for me. I
really enjoyed it a lot.
A few months ago someone said that the scene where Pauline pretends to
be death after the bike accident was hilarious. I must disagree. The
face of Juliette in front of a loss-situation again and the pain it
reflects is awful.
Also the night with the saints after the Orson's pursuit is a
masterpiece, Maybe Jean could explain us how they made it (speciall
effects, camera movements, etc).
Heavenly Creatures is, in deed, my very favorite movie.
Thanks a lot to all of you Creatures for reading
José Antonio Abad
--------------- MESSAGE heavenly-c.v001.n916.10 ---------------
From: "Jose Antonio Abad Trillo" <jabad@softtek.com>
Subject: HC Laserdisc extinct!
Date: Wed, 10 Sep 1997 12:49:25 -0600
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit
Hello Creatures
I've been looking for a copy of HC on Laserdisc and I can not find it
anywhere! At KenCranes, where I placed an order, they told me that it
is out of stock but it could came any minute. But at LaserExchange they
told me that it is not been produced anymore!!! Does anyone of you know
if that is true? I sent an email to Miramax asking that and by now I
haven't received an answer. Does anyone of you have a spare copy that
are willing to be sell? Can someone help me please?
Thanks for reading
José Antonio Abad
--------------- END heavenly-c.v001.n916 ---------------
Date:
Thu, 10 Sep 1998 20:43:18 -0700 (PDT)
From:
heavenly-c-errors@lists.best.com Add to Address Book
Subject:
Digest heavenly-c.v001.n917
Reply-To:
heavenly-c@lists.best.com
To:
heavenly-c@lists.best.com
-------------- BEGIN heavenly-c.v001.n917 --------------
001 - "Jose Antonio Abad Trillo - Technical question for Jean or
else
002 - RUbabes@aol.com - Laserdisc-For Jose
003 - Stephen Bull <sybull@line - DVD and the like.
004 - "E. Jean Guerin" <orson@v - Re: Technical question for Jean
or else
005 - "E. Jean Guerin" <orson@v - Re: Miramax letter (fwd)
006 - "E. Jean Guerin" <orson@v - Re: I saw it again
007 - "Jose Antonio Abad Trillo - Re: Laserdisc-For Jose
008 - "E. Jean Guerin" <orson@v - Re: DVD and the like.
009 - "E. Jean Guerin" <orson@v - Re: DVD and the like.
010 - "Jose Antonio Abad Trillo - Re: Technical question for Jean
or else
--------------- MESSAGE heavenly-c.v001.n917.1 ---------------
From: "Jose Antonio Abad Trillo" <jabad@softtek.com>
Subject: Technical question for Jean or else
Date: Wed, 10 Sep 1997 12:56:24 -0600
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit
Hello creatures:
May be someone can answer me this question. How Peter Jackson made the
scene in the classroom when Juliete anoyed the french teacher? I mean,
how the camera is placed as it be the blackboard? I think that they
made several shots and the closeup of the teacher is achieved moving
everybody backwards just to make some room for the camera between the
blackboard and the teacher, but also maybe there is a special technique
unknown by me. Jean, where you there by then or you arrived later?
Thanks for reading
José Antonio Abad
--------------- MESSAGE heavenly-c.v001.n917.2 ---------------
From: RUbabes@aol.com
Subject: Laserdisc-For Jose
Date: Thu, 10 Sep 1998 17:40:12 EDT
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
Hello All,
Just hoping to give you some insight into the laserdisc hunt, Jose.
I don't have one myself, but, I helped a friend in NYC locate one
several
months ago. There is a large music/video store in downtown Chicago
called
'Crow's Nest'...they not only carry (regularly) HC, but, also Jude and
S&S. My
friend in NY was able to order the laserdisc from them on the phone and
have
it shipped to her. I know that the store would probably be willing to
order
one for you if they don't have it in stock, and ship it that way, too.
You
should defintely look into those possibilities if you are having such a
hard
time getting it...it might be a little costly in the long run-but,
worth it
I'd imagine!!! :)
Again, it's called Crow's Nest...the address is 300 S. State St.
Chicago, IL
60605, I believe...if, when calling information (312-555-1212), the
State St.
address doesn't work, try asking for Jackson Blvd. That's the cross
street...I'd just look up the number myself, but, I'm out of town! :)
Hope it helps...
-Jesse :)
--------------- MESSAGE heavenly-c.v001.n917.3 ---------------
From: Stephen Bull <sybull@lineone.net>
Subject: DVD and the like.
Date: Thu, 10 Sep 1998 22:05:51 +0100
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
Hiya,
I think jeroen will probably be the best to answer this, but any input
would be nice.
The other day, I was in HMV and noticed they had a Phillips Widesceen TV
hooked up to a DVD player (not sure which one) but it looked impressive
so i went and had a closer look. They were playing the DVD of "Matilda"
(an excellent film). I was watching it, when the scene came up where the
teacher jokingly asks the class what 2 large numbers multiplied together
are. Anyway, at this point there is a lovely circular pan shot of the
whole class and I noticed the picture appeared to "judder"/"Blur" as it
panned around. I assume this is to do with the compression techniques
used. It occurred to me a bit later that Alun Bollinger uses wonderfully
dramatic camera techniques in HC. Would this same affect happen with HC
and The Frightners?
It has made me a bit cautious of DVD. But then again, it could just have
been my imagination/ the store lighting etc.
Stephen
P.S Jean, do you know what ever happened to the Port Levy Holiday snaps
from HC? They would make a lovley set to own. Maybe they could be
incorparated in a "Holy Grail " DVD verision of HC? 8-)>
--------------- MESSAGE heavenly-c.v001.n917.4 ---------------
From: "E. Jean Guerin" <orson@videotron.ca>
Subject: Re: Technical question for Jean or else
Date: Thu, 10 Sep 1998 18:28:38 -0400
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
Jose Antonio Abad Trillo wrote:
>Jean, where you there by then or you arrived later?
I may have arrived before. Movies aren't shot in sequence.
They could move things back. They call it "cheating for the camera".
(:^)]
--------------- MESSAGE heavenly-c.v001.n917.5 ---------------
From: "E. Jean Guerin" <orson@videotron.ca>
Subject: Re: Miramax letter (fwd)
Date: Thu, 10 Sep 1998 18:30:54 -0400
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
jeroen wrote:
>I'm no expert on this, but why is this letter addressed to miramax? I
>mean they only have the rights for US distribution and nothing else.
Actually, Miramax holds world rights to HC. Wingnut only has NZ
domestic.
(:^)]
--------------- MESSAGE heavenly-c.v001.n917.6 ---------------
From: "E. Jean Guerin" <orson@videotron.ca>
Subject: Re: I saw it again
Date: Thu, 10 Sep 1998 18:26:40 -0400
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
Jose Antonio Abad Trillo wrote:
>Also the night with the saints after the Orson's pursuit is a
>masterpiece, Maybe Jean could explain us how they made it (speciall
>effects, camera movements, etc).
I was there for my bit but on the plane the next day so I really
couldn't
explain it.
Sorry.
(:^)]
--------------- MESSAGE heavenly-c.v001.n917.7 ---------------
From: "Jose Antonio Abad Trillo" <jabad@softtek.com>
Subject: Re: Laserdisc-For Jose
Date: Thu, 10 Sep 1998 22:16:35 -0500
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
References: <199809102211.PAA27837@lists1.best.com>
Thank you very much Jesse! I will try to contact them. It is a little
hard because I live in Mexico but it worths it. When you get the right
number, I'll appreciate if you give it to me. Thanks again!
Jose Antonio Abad
RUbabes@aol.com wrote:
>
> Hello All,
>
> Just hoping to give you some insight into the laserdisc hunt, Jose.
>
> I don't have one myself, but, I helped a friend in NYC locate one
several
> months ago. There is a large music/video store in downtown Chicago
called
> 'Crow's Nest'...they not only carry (regularly) HC, but, also Jude
and S&S. My
> friend in NY was able to order the laserdisc from them on the phone
and have
> it shipped to her. I know that the store would probably be willing to
order
> one for you if they don't have it in stock, and ship it that way,
too. You
> should defintely look into those possibilities if you are having such
a hard
> time getting it...it might be a little costly in the long run-but,
worth it
> I'd imagine!!! :)
>
> Again, it's called Crow's Nest...the address is 300 S. State St.
Chicago, IL
> 60605, I believe...if, when calling information (312-555-1212), the
State St.
> address doesn't work, try asking for Jackson Blvd. That's the cross
> street...I'd just look up the number myself, but, I'm out of town! :)
>
> Hope it helps...
> -Jesse :)
--
------------------------------------------------------
|
|
| Cuanto mas grande la cabeza, mas fuerte la jaqueca. |
| The bigger the head, the bigger the headache |
------------------------------------------------------
--------------- MESSAGE heavenly-c.v001.n917.8 ---------------
From: "E. Jean Guerin" <orson@videotron.ca>
Subject: Re: DVD and the like.
Date: Thu, 10 Sep 1998 23:41:32 -0400
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
Stephen Bull wrote:
>I noticed the picture appeared to "judder"/"Blur" as it
>panned around.
Those artefacts actually dissapear somewhat when viewed on a digital TV
(which the DVD is designed for). These artefacts are created as the
image
is "converted" to a normal TV signal.
It's also a bug which should get ironed out with subsequent generations.
(:^)]
--------------- MESSAGE heavenly-c.v001.n917.9 ---------------
From: "E. Jean Guerin" <orson@videotron.ca>
Subject: Re: DVD and the like.
Date: Thu, 10 Sep 1998 23:38:39 -0400
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
Stephen Bull wrote:
>P.S Jean, do you know what ever happened to the Port Levy Holiday snaps
>from HC? They would make a lovley set to own. Maybe they could be
>incorparated in a "Holy Grail " DVD verision of HC?
I'm sure they are still amongst (still photog) Pierre Vinet's archives
along with tons of stills and production shots. (I was given one of
"Orson" with the promise they'd send more but that didn't happen. It's
a
good thing I brought my camera.)
(:^)]
--------------- MESSAGE heavenly-c.v001.n917.10 ---------------
From: "Jose Antonio Abad Trillo" <jabad@softtek.com>
Subject: Re: Technical question for Jean or else
Date: Thu, 10 Sep 1998 22:23:38 -0500
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
References: <199809102232.PAA23328@lists1.best.com>
E. Jean Guerin wrote:
>
> Jose Antonio Abad Trillo wrote:
>
> >Jean, where you there by then or you arrived later?
>
> I may have arrived before. Movies aren't shot in sequence.
>
> They could move things back. They call it "cheating for the camera".
>
> (:^)]
This one is for Jean also, sorry Creatures!
Jean, do you know if there is (if exists) a diary of the filmation of
HC? See, I am very interested of knowing how, exactly, the movies are
made. I have some books but I would love to read some about a movie
I've already saw, and it could be better if it is from my favourite
movie. Excuse me if I'm bothering you with this kind of questions. (I
apologize because I have some more, but I'll made them later)
Yhanks for reading
Jose Antonio Abad
--
------------------------------------------------------
|
|
| Cuanto mas grande la cabeza, mas fuerte la jaqueca. |
| The bigger the head, the bigger the headache |
------------------------------------------------------
--------------- END heavenly-c.v001.n917 ---------------
Date:
Fri, 11 Sep 1998 11:14:12 -0700 (PDT)
From:
heavenly-c-errors@lists.best.com Add to Address Book
Subject:
Digest heavenly-c.v001.n918
Reply-To:
heavenly-c@lists.best.com
To:
heavenly-c@lists.best.com
-------------- BEGIN heavenly-c.v001.n918 --------------
001 - nbk94@xs4all.nl (jeroen) - Re: Technical question for Jean
or else
002 - nbk94@xs4all.nl (jeroen) - Re: DVD and the like.
003 - adam abrams <adamabr@heli - Re: Any piano players out there?
Track 13 transcribed
004 - ~lyric~ <dalyric@writeme. - just a sad note
005 - Bettina.Hahn@t-online.de - little OT, but personal
006 - ~lyric~ <dalyric@writeme. - perverts?????
007 - "E. Jean Guerin" <orson@v - Re: Technical question for Jean
or else
008 - "E. Jean Guerin" <orson@v - Video diary
009 - Stephen Bull <sybull@line - I wonder....
010 - nbk94@xs4all.nl (jeroen) - Re: just a sad note
--------------- MESSAGE heavenly-c.v001.n918.1 ---------------
From: nbk94@xs4all.nl (jeroen)
Subject: Re: Technical question for Jean or else
Date: Fri, 11 Sep 1998 06:12:45 GMT
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit
References: <199809102232.PAA23328@lists1.best.com>
<199809110343.UAA07993@lists1.best.com>
In-Reply-To: <199809110343.UAA07993@lists1.best.com>
On Thu, 10 Sep 1998 22:23:38 -0500, "Jose Antonio Abad Trillo"
<jabad@softtek.com> wrote:
>Jean, do you know if there is (if exists) a diary of the filmation of
>HC?
On a similar note, didn't they keep some sort of video diary on the
set? I remember peter saying they have about 200 hours 'making of HC'
material on tape, and that he was going to use it for a documentary
for a special edition ld (like the 4-hrs documentary on the THE
FRIGHTENERS ld).
I'd love to take these tapes off his hands though.
--
jeroen -- the netherlands -- http://www.xs4all.nl/~nbk94
aLL OVER ME hEAVENLY CREATURES jUDE lEON nBK
--------------- MESSAGE heavenly-c.v001.n918.2 ---------------
From: nbk94@xs4all.nl (jeroen)
Subject: Re: DVD and the like.
Date: Fri, 11 Sep 1998 06:12:44 GMT
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit
References: <199809102211.PAA28264@lists1.best.com>
In-Reply-To: <199809102211.PAA28264@lists1.best.com>
On Thu, 10 Sep 1998 22:05:51 +0100, Stephen Bull <sybull@lineone.net>
wrote:
>The other day, I was in HMV and noticed they had a Phillips Widesceen
TV
>hooked up to a DVD player (not sure which one) but it looked impressive
>so i went and had a closer look. They were playing the DVD of "Matilda"
I love that film! Unfortunately the dvd is a pan & scan job, so i got
the 2.35:1 ld instead.
>(an excellent film). I was watching it, when the scene came up where
the
>teacher jokingly asks the class what 2 large numbers multiplied
together
>are. Anyway, at this point there is a lovely circular pan shot of the
>whole class and I noticed the picture appeared to "judder"/"Blur" as it
>panned around. I assume this is to do with the compression techniques
>used. It occurred to me a bit later that Alun Bollinger uses
wonderfully
No nothing to do with compression. best described as a slight stutter
of smooth movement. When you're watching an interlaced picture you're
also watching a 3/2 pulldown sequence (every other film frame produces
3 video fields instead of 2). You should see it when you're watching
tv all the time. There are 3 ways to get rid of judder:
- a faroudja line doubler for $10k
- a progressive scan dvd-rom like the 3d fusion for $300
- a stand-alone progressive scan dvd like the toshiba 8107 for $1200
Note that for all these solutions you need a display device capable of
producing a vertical refresh rate of at least 31 khz.
I've already ordered the tosh 8107, it should come out by the end of
this month.
--
jeroen -- the netherlands -- http://www.xs4all.nl/~nbk94
aLL OVER ME hEAVENLY CREATURES jUDE lEON nBK
--------------- MESSAGE heavenly-c.v001.n918.3 ---------------
From: adam abrams <adamabr@helix.net>
Subject: Re: Any piano players out there? Track 13 transcribed
Date: Thu, 10 Sep 1998 23:47:59 -0700 (PDT)
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
In-Reply-To: <199809021010.DAA09601@lists1.best.com>
>I've transcribed track 13 "Pauline & Juliet" by Peter Dasent
>on the HC soundtrack. This is a really beautiful piano piece.
>If you are a keyboard/piano playing HC fan, this is a must for
>your repetoire.
That's great! I actually did something similar: I learned it "by ear". I
took jazz piano for a few years and have a good ear for picking up
stuff so
I was able to do it, after listening to that track over and over and
over!
>If there
>is enough interest I'll maybe ask Adam if he would be interested in
>putting it up on his website. Hopefully the score will be tweaked by
>then.
I'd be happy to give it a home.
>Also, I have outputted the track in MIDI format if anyone wants that.
>The cheesy piano sounds on my sound card don't do it justice though.
>I'm sure the piece sounds MUCH better when played on a grand piano,
>in the dark, at 4:30 in the morning of a sleepless night, half-awake.
You are truly the master of evocation. Hey, I would LOVE to hear your
midi
file, cheesy or not (my Mac usually does a decent enough job of
rendering
Midi files...) Please send it along whenever you can!
Thanks,
Adam
==========================================================================
Visit the HEAVENLY CREATURES website... "for the good of your health!"
www.geocities.com/Hollywood/Studio/2194/
THE ADAM ZONE: www.helix.net/~adamabr/adamzone/
==========================================================================
--------------- MESSAGE heavenly-c.v001.n918.4 ---------------
From: ~lyric~ <dalyric@writeme.com>
Subject: just a sad note
Date: Fri, 11 Sep 1998 12:00:06 +0000
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
References: <199809101822.LAA09731@lists1.best.com>
Hi,
I just discovered that Ever After won't be shown here until February
1999. By then I'll be in Tennessee for 5 months...and I guess Ever After
will be out of the theatres there...
So there's probably no chance I can see it on the big screen... )-:
Marloes
--------------- MESSAGE heavenly-c.v001.n918.5 ---------------
From: Bettina.Hahn@t-online.de (Bettina.Hahn)
Subject: little OT, but personal
Date: Fri, 11 Sep 1998 14:03:29 +0200
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8BIT
so now Iīll tell you how it happened that my real-world-person died and
how I
became a citizen of the 4th world...if youīre not too much into sad
psyco-heartbreak-stories (LOL- what else is HC?), donīt read it, itīll
bore you.
Today I decided that my real caracter Bettina died, and that from now
on Iīll
live as my borovnian character, Layala. Betty was a nice girl, really,
but she
was to weak and naive, so she had to die. Iīll still have to change my
eMail-address...
Layala knows how to get along in the "real world", so Iīll have no
problems with
my metamorphose...Iīll be wearing black the next few days, because Iīm
sorry for
my former "me", but then Iīll treat the upward way!
Betty is no longer worth to be a heavenly creature. She made a mistake,
she fell
in love with a fool. He ripped her heart out! Bastard!
No, itīs not his fault that we are too different, he couldnīt cope with
me, so
it was the best way to dump him, wasnīt it? He turned out ignorant and
intolerant, so forget about him.
The pride of a borovnian princess doesnīt allow to show tears. Others
turn to
axe-murderers, Iīve turned into an obsessed heavenly creature, now what
is
better? I promise you all I will never kill one of them. Let me just be
different, maybe better than the rest...
I just thought you would understand what happened to me, better than
anyone
else. This sure is interesting for you, it shows what can happen to
someone like
us...
now I feel no pain at all! My re-inkarnation saved my life!
Love,
Layala
--------------- MESSAGE heavenly-c.v001.n918.6 ---------------
From: ~lyric~ <dalyric@writeme.com>
Subject: perverts?????
Date: Fri, 11 Sep 1998 16:27:46 +0000
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
References: <199809110650.XAA21961@lists1.best.com>
My Dearest Creatures,
Just two days ago Heavenly Creatures was shown on the Belgian TV-channel
Canvas. I checked the Belgian TV-magazine and found an half-page article
about it with some info on HC and a little interview with Kate.
I thought it was a pretty bad article...Melanie is not even
mentioned...not at all. A part is about the real story (including some
mistakes), the rest about Kate...(About Titanic and about what she
thinks of the Parker-Hulme case)
The title was: 'Perverts or just lesbians?'
Which, like Jeroen already mentioned to me, proves that the the person
who made up this piece of crap is just as narrow-minded as the New
Zealanders in the fifties...*sigh*
If anyone wants me to translate the whole article I'll be happy to do it
and share it with you...it would be nice to know what other creatures
think of it. Let me know, if there are enough interested people I'll
post in on the mailinglist.
Ohhh...before I forget: Happy Birthday to you Layala!!
Have a nice weekend!
Marloes
--------------- MESSAGE heavenly-c.v001.n918.7 ---------------
From: "E. Jean Guerin" <orson@videotron.ca>
Subject: Re: Technical question for Jean or else
Date: Fri, 11 Sep 1998 11:21:29 -0400
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
Jose Antonio Abad Trillo wrote:
>Jean, do you know if there is (if exists) a diary of the filmation of
>HC?
If there is one, it hasn't been published. I have kept a personal diary
of my own experience which I hope to put in my website- eventually
(Right
now, I have too many fires to put out)
>See, I am very interested of knowing how, exactly, the movies are
>made.
That takes years of film school and on-set experiences and I'm still
trying to figure it out :-)
Perhaps some movies are shooting in your area. It's a good idea to go
see
casting agencies and register for "background work" or as an "extra".
This allows you to be on set and see for yourself. The one drawback is
that movie sets are incredibly boring to most people. There is a lot of
"Hurry up and wait"
(:^)]
--------------- MESSAGE heavenly-c.v001.n918.8 ---------------
From: "E. Jean Guerin" <orson@videotron.ca>
Subject: Video diary
Date: Fri, 11 Sep 1998 11:27:09 -0400
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
jeroen wrote:
>On a similar note, didn't they keep some sort of video diary on the
>set?
They did. There was a camcorder on set. I'd love to see that stuff too!
The special ed was discussed (Peter loves videodiscs and special eds
and
was planning for one) but kinda "forgotten" by Miramax later. This is
typical of the biz.
It may still happen.
(:^)]
--------------- MESSAGE heavenly-c.v001.n918.9 ---------------
From: Stephen Bull <sybull@lineone.net>
Subject: I wonder....
Date: Fri, 11 Sep 1998 16:59:24 +0100
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
Hiya all,
Just sitting here thinking
(must have to much time on my
hands)....
I wonder if Anne Perry went to
see Titanic just to see what
Kate looked liked? And if she
did see Kate in Titanic,
interviews etc, what she
thinks of Kate as an actress?
These questions presumes Anne
knows that Kate played her in
HC.
Does anyone know if it is
possible to get hold of stills
from films. I was wondering if
all stills are kept in a
central archive for books,
autobiographies, documentries
etc. I would love to see the
stills from HC. Seems a
terrible waste to keep them
under wraps. What is the point
of taking then? Does one
assume we will only see them
when a Kate bio appears?
Stephen
--------------- MESSAGE heavenly-c.v001.n918.10 ---------------
From: nbk94@xs4all.nl (jeroen)
Subject: Re: just a sad note
Date: Fri, 11 Sep 1998 18:10:40 GMT
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit
References: <199809101822.LAA09731@lists1.best.com>
<199809110954.CAA13626@lists1.best.com>
In-Reply-To: <199809110954.CAA13626@lists1.best.com>
On Fri, 11 Sep 1998 12:00:06 +0000, ~lyric~ <dalyric@writeme.com>
wrote:
>I just discovered that Ever After won't be shown here until February
>1999.
Bummer. Oh well, big chance i'll have it on dvd or laser before it
hits the theaters anyway.
And at least it will be shown, it's not like the wonderful U TURN
which never even made it to dutch cinemas.
--
jeroen -- the netherlands -- http://www.xs4all.nl/~nbk94
aLL OVER ME hEAVENLY CREATURES jUDE lEON nBK
--------------- END heavenly-c.v001.n918 ---------------
Date:
Fri, 11 Sep 1998 19:46:14 -0700 (PDT)
From:
heavenly-c-errors@lists.best.com Add to Address Book
Subject:
Digest heavenly-c.v001.n919
Reply-To:
heavenly-c@lists.best.com
To:
heavenly-c@lists.best.com
-------------- BEGIN heavenly-c.v001.n919 --------------
001 - nbk94@xs4all.nl (jeroen) - Re: perverts?????
002 - Rosedwson4@aol.com - Re: pictures jean?
003 - ~lyric~ <dalyric@writeme. - Re: perverts?????
004 - "E. Jean Guerin" <orson@v - Re: pictures jean?
005 - "Jose Antonio Abad Trillo - Re: Any piano players out there?
Track 13 transcribed
006 - "Jose Antonio Abad Trillo - Re: just a sad note
007 - "Jose Antonio Abad Trillo - Re: little OT, but personal
008 - "Jose Antonio Abad Trillo - Re: perverts?????
009 - Booradle13@aol.com - Re: HC Laserdisc extinct!
010 - "Jose Antonio Abad Trillo - Re: pictures jean?
--------------- MESSAGE heavenly-c.v001.n919.1 ---------------
From: nbk94@xs4all.nl (jeroen)
Subject: Re: perverts?????
Date: Fri, 11 Sep 1998 18:10:41 GMT
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit
References: <199809110650.XAA21961@lists1.best.com>
<199809111422.HAA14346@lists1.best.com>
In-Reply-To: <199809111422.HAA14346@lists1.best.com>
On Fri, 11 Sep 1998 16:27:46 +0000, ~lyric~ <dalyric@writeme.com>
wrote:
>Just two days ago Heavenly Creatures was shown on the Belgian
TV-channel
>Canvas.
Which, btw, was framed 16:9 from the open matte cut. Not too bad.
And i even think it was broadcasted in PAL-plus (which is kinda like
anamorphic dvd, +33% vertical resolution blabla). Damn, should have
taped it.
--
jeroen -- the netherlands -- http://www.xs4all.nl/~nbk94
aLL OVER ME hEAVENLY CREATURES jUDE lEON nBK
--------------- MESSAGE heavenly-c.v001.n919.2 ---------------
From: Rosedwson4@aol.com
Subject: Re: pictures jean?
Date: Fri, 11 Sep 1998 16:48:51 EDT
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
In a message dated 98-09-11 00:42:09 EDT, you write:
> It's a
> good thing I brought my camera.)
>
well.... do you have a scanner or what??? :-) id live to see any pics
ya
took, I can scan my pics of kate... but they really suck coz im an
idiot!...(long story...) but anyways, just wondering if you scould
scan them
in or anything if u have any good pics of anything ;-) ok, talk to you
all
later!
to the stage!
love,
Rachel :-)!!!
--------------- MESSAGE heavenly-c.v001.n919.3 ---------------
From: ~lyric~ <dalyric@writeme.com>
Subject: Re: perverts?????
Date: Fri, 11 Sep 1998 23:14:30 +0200
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
References: <199809110650.XAA21961@lists1.best.com>
<199809111422.HAA14346@lists1.best.com>
<199809111814.LAA24446@lists1.best.com>
Okay, two people were interested in the article so far...that's enough
for this little obsessed creature to bombard you all with it! *giggle*
But first:
Jeroen wrote:
> Which, btw, was framed 16:9 from the open matte cut. Not too bad.
> And i even think it was broadcasted in PAL-plus (which is kinda like
> anamorphic dvd, +33% vertical resolution blabla). Damn, should have
> taped it.
No, it wasn't too bad, and I taped it! Just to compare the subtitles
once again... I don't know if it's a good tape, I did buy a new one
especially, but that doesn't say much. I can't copy tapes, but if you
can, you can take mine when you pick up the cd's...
Okay, her it goes!
I tried to translate the text litterally...but if anything remains
unclear (because of my typos or misunderstandings), just let me know and
'll try to find a better translation...
Heavenly Creatures
Perverts or just Lesbians?
The Parker-Hulme case. Every kiwi knows the story. In 1954, in a little
park in the village Christchurch in New Zealand, an in a stocking rolled
half brick crushed the skull of housewife Honora Parker. Perpetrators
were her daughter Pauline Yvonne Parker and Juliet Marion Hulme. De
girls, fifteen back then, were close friends with a big imagination who
felt threatened by the interference of their narrow-minded parents. The
court called it 'a cold, horrible, calculated murder, committed by two
very bright and healthy, but precocious girls with a defiled conscience.
Their youth saved them from the death penalty. After five and a half
years they were released provided that they would never meet again.
Hulme is now 58 years old, she lives in a little Scottish town, is a
dedicated mormon and her mother lifes five doors away. Her name's now
Anne Perry and she writes murderstories (and pretty good ones). Pauline
Parker has disappeared; there are rumours that she lives in devoutness
and works in a bookstore.
The New Zealand director Peter Jackson - check out his fantastic
slasherfilm 'Braindead'- has filmed these bizarre facts in 1994. Kate
Winslet was seventien when she made her impressive debut as Juliet
Hulme. She was chosen out of 175 girls. "I couldn't have wished for a
better debut," says Kate. "you know, five years ago I was still slicing
ham in a delicatessen in London. But i'm also proud of that work. THe
bos ensured me I could come back any timem (laughs). Believe me, there's
nothing more difficult than slicing ham of the bone."
- How do you look back at Heavenly Creatures?
Winslet << Actually only now I realize what a weird story it is. I was
seventien back then and played the role unconsciously. I was glad I was
able to act in the first place, for that was my big dream. >>
- Have you ever found an explanation for the murder yourself?
Winslet << I think it was the result of a too close friendship, but I
can't really explain it. What those girls did, can't be explained
rationally. In the fifties Pauline and Juliet were labelled as the two
most evil people on earth. Hey found the cause of their behaviour: they
just called them lesbians. That was evil enough. And it cleared the
country of any blame: they weren't real kiwi's, they were abnormal.
>> But their expiriments were just typical for girls around that age:
they slept in the same bed sometimes, they hugged and sometimes they
made love 'like their idols'. In the middle-age fantasy-world they
built together, the psychiatrists only saw sexual symbols. Their
parents wanted to break them up, and they did everything they could to
prevent that, I think. Because they loved eachother.
>> To prepare for the role I read their diaries, and the letters they
sent to eachother about their fantasy-world, and I looked at a lot of
pictures from their family-albums. I also talked to old friends. It was
a strange experience altogether.>>
- And how do you look back at 'Titanic'? After the filming you screamed
to the media how terrible it was to make that film.
Winslet << There were indeed days I woke up in the morning and thought:
'God, let me die!' It was so terrible. The takes to SO long, Leonardo
and I didn't see any dramatic progress in the story. When we were half
way, we only slept four hours a night. I went to sleep when the boats
left to fish for lobster. And James Cameron made bets about who would
first collapse because of the enormous pressure. He loved it all.
>> I just shot in Marrakesh for the BBC 'hideous Kinky', a low-budget
film. I didn't have to wear a corset for once! I was even allowed to
lay in the sun, while my contract with 'Titanic' made clear I had to
stay white. It was quite different. And I wasn't suicidal this time!
(laughs)>>
Hope you had 'fun' reading this...I'm going to get my beautyrest! nite!
Marloes
--
Though I am different from you,
We were born involved in one another
- Tau Ch'ien
--------------- MESSAGE heavenly-c.v001.n919.4 ---------------
From: "E. Jean Guerin" <orson@videotron.ca>
Subject: Re: pictures jean?
Date: Fri, 11 Sep 1998 20:07:25 -0400
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
Rosedwson4@aol.com wrote:
>well.... do you have a scanner or what??? :-)
I had them on my website. However, redoing my page has had to take a
backseat to trying to land a paying gig. I've been doin the starvin'
artist bit since the ice storm (and the producer who "greenlighted" my
screenplay and tried to buy it for a buck).
I intend to post my diary with pics.
(:^)]
--------------- MESSAGE heavenly-c.v001.n919.5 ---------------
From: "Jose Antonio Abad Trillo" <jabad@softtek.com>
Subject: Re: Any piano players out there? Track 13 transcribed
Date: Fri, 11 Sep 1998 21:18:02 -0500
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Hello Creatures:
I would like to have your transcription. I have a Mac but I have a Opus
as my music program wich is not registered and I can't transcribe MIDI
files. I have a MIDI player but I can't edit or even view the score. I
play the piano and I would like to have the score and de MIDI file. If
you are so kind please send them to me. Thank you!
Jose Antonio Abad
adam abrams wrote:
>
> >I've transcribed track 13 "Pauline & Juliet" by Peter Dasent
> >on the HC soundtrack. This is a really beautiful piano piece.
> >If you are a keyboard/piano playing HC fan, this is a must for
> >your repetoire.
>
> That's great! I actually did something similar: I learned it "by
ear". I
> took jazz piano for a few years and have a good ear for picking up
stuff so
> I was able to do it, after listening to that track over and over and
over!
>
> >If there
> >is enough interest I'll maybe ask Adam if he would be interested in
> >putting it up on his website. Hopefully the score will be tweaked by
> >then.
>
> I'd be happy to give it a home.
>
> >Also, I have outputted the track in MIDI format if anyone wants that.
> >The cheesy piano sounds on my sound card don't do it justice though.
> >I'm sure the piece sounds MUCH better when played on a grand piano,
> >in the dark, at 4:30 in the morning of a sleepless night, half-awake.
>
> You are truly the master of evocation. Hey, I would LOVE to hear your
midi
> file, cheesy or not (my Mac usually does a decent enough job of
rendering
> Midi files...) Please send it along whenever you can!
>
> Thanks,
> Adam
>
>
==========================================================================
> Visit the HEAVENLY CREATURES website... "for the good of your
health!"
> www.geocities.com/Hollywood/Studio/2194/
>
> THE ADAM ZONE: www.helix.net/~adamabr/adamzone/
>
==========================================================================
--
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| Cuanto mas grande la cabeza, mas fuerte la jaqueca. |
| The bigger the head, the bigger the headache |
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--------------- MESSAGE heavenly-c.v001.n919.6 ---------------
From: "Jose Antonio Abad Trillo" <jabad@softtek.com>
Subject: Re: just a sad note
Date: Fri, 11 Sep 1998 21:21:59 -0500
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References: <199809101822.LAA09731@lists1.best.com>
<199809110954.CAA13626@lists1.best.com>
~lyric~ wrote:
>
> Hi,
> I just discovered that Ever After won't be shown here until February
> 1999. By then I'll be in Tennessee for 5 months...and I guess Ever
After
> will be out of the theatres there...
> So there's probably no chance I can see it on the big screen... )-:
>
> Marloes
As always, here in my country, they don't show anything but the same old
hollywood adventure, so I'm loosing my hope also.
Thanks for reading
Jose Antonio Abad
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| Cuanto mas grande la cabeza, mas fuerte la jaqueca. |
| The bigger the head, the bigger the headache |
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--------------- MESSAGE heavenly-c.v001.n919.7 ---------------
From: "Jose Antonio Abad Trillo" <jabad@softtek.com>
Subject: Re: little OT, but personal
Date: Fri, 11 Sep 1998 21:27:54 -0500
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References: <199809111206.FAA16815@lists1.best.com>
Bettina.Hahn wrote:
>
> so now Iīll tell you how it happened that my real-world-person died
and how I
> became a citizen of the 4th world...if youīre not too much into sad
> psyco-heartbreak-stories (LOL- what else is HC?), donīt read it,
itīll bore you.
>
> Today I decided that my real caracter Bettina died, and that from now
on Iīll
> live as my borovnian character, Layala. Betty was a nice girl,
really, but she
> was to weak and naive, so she had to die. Iīll still have to change my
> eMail-address...
> Layala knows how to get along in the "real world", so Iīll have no
problems with
> my metamorphose...Iīll be wearing black the next few days, because
Iīm sorry for
> my former "me", but then Iīll treat the upward way!
> Betty is no longer worth to be a heavenly creature. She made a
mistake, she fell
> in love with a fool. He ripped her heart out! Bastard!
> No, itīs not his fault that we are too different, he couldnīt cope
with me, so
> it was the best way to dump him, wasnīt it? He turned out ignorant and
> intolerant, so forget about him.
> The pride of a borovnian princess doesnīt allow to show tears. Others
turn to
> axe-murderers, Iīve turned into an obsessed heavenly creature, now
what is
> better? I promise you all I will never kill one of them. Let me just
be
> different, maybe better than the rest...
>
> I just thought you would understand what happened to me, better than
anyone
> else. This sure is interesting for you, it shows what can happen to
someone like
> us...
> now I feel no pain at all! My re-inkarnation saved my life!
>
> Love,
> Layala
Bety ha muerto, Viva Bety!
Welcome Layala. Enjoy your pain so you will enjoy better the health.
Thanks for reading
Jose Antonio Abad
--
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| Cuanto mas grande la cabeza, mas fuerte la jaqueca. |
| The bigger the head, the bigger the headache |
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--------------- MESSAGE heavenly-c.v001.n919.8 ---------------
From: "Jose Antonio Abad Trillo" <jabad@softtek.com>
Subject: Re: perverts?????
Date: Fri, 11 Sep 1998 21:34:31 -0500
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<199809111422.HAA14346@lists1.best.com>
~lyric~ wrote:
>
> My Dearest Creatures,
>
> Just two days ago Heavenly Creatures was shown on the Belgian
TV-channel
> Canvas. I checked the Belgian TV-magazine and found an half-page
article
> about it with some info on HC and a little interview with Kate.
> I thought it was a pretty bad article...Melanie is not even
> mentioned...not at all. A part is about the real story (including some
> mistakes), the rest about Kate...(About Titanic and about what she
> thinks of the Parker-Hulme case)
> The title was: 'Perverts or just lesbians?'
> Ohhh...before I forget: Happy Birthday to you Layala!!
>
> Have a nice weekend!
> Marloes
I saw a similar article here in Mexico talking about Kate and it
mentioned HC just as Kate's first movie and it was quoted as a psicho
realtion between two lesbians. I do understand that HC is not for
everyone but before you can make a critic you must research a little.
i.e. I did not like Kids. I think it has too long sex scenes and that
it lacks of conclusion but it is not a bad movie, it is only different!
Thanks for reading
Jose Antonio Abad
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| Cuanto mas grande la cabeza, mas fuerte la jaqueca. |
| The bigger the head, the bigger the headache |
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--------------- MESSAGE heavenly-c.v001.n919.9 ---------------
From: Booradle13@aol.com
Subject: Re: HC Laserdisc extinct!
Date: Fri, 11 Sep 1998 22:38:04 EDT
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You can try a place called lasertown. I believe that is what it is
called.
That is where I got my laserdisk version of HC. I believe they have a
webpage
and where you can order from...i think the address is www.lasertown.com.
check it out and if this is not the right address let me know and I'll
try to
find it
--------------- MESSAGE heavenly-c.v001.n919.10 ---------------
From: "Jose Antonio Abad Trillo" <jabad@softtek.com>
Subject: Re: pictures jean?
Date: Fri, 11 Sep 1998 21:43:27 -0500
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E. Jean Guerin wrote:
>
> I intend to post my diary with pics.
>
> (:^)]
If you do so Jean, I guess must of the fellow creatures here will be for
ever grateful to you (me included, of course) of such a nice gift.
Yhanks for reading
Jose Antonio Abad
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| Cuanto mas grande la cabeza, mas fuerte la jaqueca. |
| The bigger the head, the bigger the headache |
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--------------- END heavenly-c.v001.n919 ---------------
Date:
Sat, 12 Sep 1998 21:10:04 -0700 (PDT)
From:
heavenly-c-errors@lists.best.com Add to Address Book
Subject:
Digest heavenly-c.v001.n920
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To:
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-------------- BEGIN heavenly-c.v001.n920 --------------
001 - "Jose Antonio Abad Trillo - Re: HC Laserdisc extinct!
002 - "Jose Antonio Abad Trillo - Re: Puccini's Tosca and Biggles
and The Loveliest Night...
003 - ~lyric~ <dalyric@writeme. - OT: Kids (was: perverts???)
004 - Bettina.Hahn@t-online.de - thanks to all!
005 - Adit <adit@main.aquanet.c - RE: Kate & Leo again
--------------- MESSAGE heavenly-c.v001.n920.1 ---------------
From: "Jose Antonio Abad Trillo" <jabad@softtek.com>
Subject: Re: HC Laserdisc extinct!
Date: Fri, 11 Sep 1998 22:42:27 -0500
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Booradle13@aol.com wrote:
>
> You can try a place called lasertown. I believe that is what it is
called.
> That is where I got my laserdisk version of HC. I believe they have
a webpage
> and where you can order from...i think the address is
www.lasertown.com.
> check it out and if this is not the right address let me know and
I'll try to
> find it
Thank you!!
The address is ok, but they don't have it. I just sent them an email
inquiring for it. I hope they can find it for me. Thank you very much
Jose Antonio Abad
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| Cuanto mas grande la cabeza, mas fuerte la jaqueca. |
| The bigger the head, the bigger the headache |
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--------------- MESSAGE heavenly-c.v001.n920.2 ---------------
From: "Jose Antonio Abad Trillo" <jabad@softtek.com>
Subject: Re: Puccini's Tosca and Biggles and The Loveliest Night...
Date: Sat, 12 Sep 1998 00:28:56 -0500
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<199807231457.HAA15396@lists1.best.com>
> Juliana Bastos wrote:
> > Jane Fribit wrote:
> > Anyway, I was just curious about whether Juliet's Aria (Sono Andati)
> > in actually in Tosca or another of Puccini's operas. Also if "E
> > lucenvan le stelle" is in this. And, if so, where are they found?
(ie
> > which act)
> I'm not
> sure of what part of Tosca is "E lucevan le stelle", but I'm almost
sure
> it's in the end. Maybe Jose Antonio knows more about it; hey Jose!
>
.
I'm so sorry of not answering this really old post! Excuse me, I was on
a heavy load of work and moving my self to another city and I skiped
this one! May be is not too late to answer it.
E Lucevan Le Stelle leads the third and final act of Puccini's Tosca.
In fact is the start of a lovely memory scene where Mario (the hero) is
about to face his doom. He is in jail and awaiting. He ask for a
permit to write a letter to Tosca and he starts to remind the good ol'
times. The lyrics tell you how sad is he and how he wants to live. You
can find it in the extraits or the complete version which includes the
dialog with the celator. Both are beautiful. All great tenors had sung
it, so if you find a compendium of any tenor you'll probably find it
there. In my point of view, Jose Carreras interpretation is the best
one.
Humming Chorus, played during the fatal walk in the park, is from
Puccini's Madama Butterfly. It is in the final part of the second act
(middle one) It interprets how Madama walks down to the peer with her
maid Suzuki and her son. She's walking to receive her boy friend but
the little she knows. She's wearing a wedding dress (after years of
wait) after Pinkerton (boy friend). He is married now withother woman,
so, Madama walk down to her fate.
Again, sorry for the delay and I hope Jane Fibrit can read this one (May
be she is no longer on the list)
Thanks for reading
Jose Antonio Abad
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| The bigger the head, the bigger the headache |
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--------------- MESSAGE heavenly-c.v001.n920.3 ---------------
From: ~lyric~ <dalyric@writeme.com>
Subject: OT: Kids (was: perverts???)
Date: Sat, 12 Sep 1998 11:31:56 +0200
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<199809111422.HAA14346@lists1.best.com>
<199809120236.TAA20036@lists1.best.com>
Jose Antonio Abad Trillo wrote:
> i.e. I did not like Kids. I think it has too long sex scenes and that
> it lacks of conclusion but it is not a bad movie, it is only
different!
I liked the documentary-style of the film...but the (according to me
childish) dialogues were irritating me...
Marloes
--
Though I am different from you,
We were born involved in one another
- Tau Ch'ien
--------------- MESSAGE heavenly-c.v001.n920.4 ---------------
From: Bettina.Hahn@t-online.de (Bettina.Hahn)
Subject: thanks to all!
Date: Sat, 12 Sep 1998 14:04:42 +0200
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thanks to everyone! Iīm really feeling better now, especially as my
friends in
real life like the Layala-idea as well! (actually they know that Iīm a
little
weird...*G*) and my exboyf is really pissed because he loved the idea
of
Borovnia and Layala, but I never dressed up as her for HIM. Now I made
some
really georgeous dresses, I coloured my hair in a sexy red tone, and
painted my
nails black ( he loves that, but I never did it before), and he also
doesnīt
like that I donīt look sad or depressed at all ;c)
thanks for sharing this with me!
*hugs*
Layala
--------------- MESSAGE heavenly-c.v001.n920.5 ---------------
From: Adit <adit@main.aquanet.co.il>
Subject: RE: Kate & Leo again
Date: Sat, 12 Sep 1998 21:31:35 +0200
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Well, there has been a rumor that Cameron was going to remake Planet of
the
Apes with Arnold Schwarzenegger in the Charlton Heston role, and maybe
that's
where the 'Star of Monkeys' is coming from. And Kate has said in public
interviews that the only way she would work for Cameron again is if she
got A
LOT of money.
Paul
That might be it. I saw one of those interviews too- but who told you
that Kate is NOT going to get a lot of money for it?!?!??!
Adit
--------------- END heavenly-c.v001.n920 ---------------