-------------- BEGIN heavenly-c.v001.n876 --------------

    001 - Juliana Bastos <jbastos@u - Re: sexual prefrence
    002 - Laurin McNiff <englishpat - OT:Sexual Preference (ReIssued!)
    003 - Shania610@aol.com         - Re: sexual prefrence
    004 - Laurin McNiff <englishpat - Re: sexual prefrence
    005 - IrishEMT12@aol.com        - Re: sexual prefrence
    006 - IrishEMT12@aol.com        - Disturbed (was SP)
    007 - PURPLEAVA@aol.com         - Re: Sexual Preference (let's end
this fight before it starts)
    008 - Laurin McNiff <englishpat - Re: Disturbed (was SP)
    009 - Laurin McNiff <englishpat - Re: Sexual Preference (let's end
this fight before it starts)
    010 - Christy Price <christy@ty - Time Out For a Sec

--------------- MESSAGE heavenly-c.v001.n876.1 ---------------

From: Juliana Bastos <jbastos@usp.br>
Subject: Re: sexual prefrence
Date: Mon, 10 Aug 1998 23:15:14 -0300
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
References: <199808101246.FAA00906@lists1.best.com>
<199808102116.OAA21215@lists1.best.com>
<199808102302.QAA23625@lists1.best.com>

> While this is an open list, some
> things that are private topics will tend to annoy people. There are
some
> things you just shouldn't "openly" talk about, in my opinion.

All right then, so let's do this: whenever one of the l.../g.../bi...
members of the list post something with "that secret" content, let's
just put "HOMO:" on the subject line so not to annoy all the sensible
people who don't want to be bothered with such a non-subject. Then they
will simply hit the *magical* Delete button and everybody gets happy
because we (the l.../g.../bi... members of this list) will still have a
little space (finally!) to express our opinions and the others (the vast
majority, I understand) won't be disturbed by it.

Come on, this is ridiculous. Hey you homophobic people, don't you know
what movie are we talking about? Isn't it clear that "the" subject is
relevant here? I'm sure no one of the l.../g.../bi... people here want
to annoy or leave anybody out of the discussion, but one thing we all
have to learn is to respect other people's opinions. That also goes for
the "dislikes list" subject, of course.

:*
Juliana.


--------------- MESSAGE heavenly-c.v001.n876.2 ---------------

From: Laurin McNiff <englishpatient@home.com>
Subject: OT:Sexual Preference (ReIssued!)
Date: Mon, 10 Aug 1998 23:48:40 -0700
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
References: <199808101246.FAA00906@lists1.best.com>
<199808102116.OAA21215@lists1.best.com>
<199808102302.QAA23625@lists1.best.com>
<199808110216.TAA20903@lists1.best.com>

Julianna, as much as I value you as a list member, I'm going to have to
add my two cents in here.

> All right then, so let's do this: whenever one of the l.../g.../bi...
> members of the list post something with "that secret" content, let's
> just put "HOMO:" on the subject line so not to annoy all the sensible
> people who don't want to be bothered with such a non-subject. 

That's a "tad" extreme, don't you think? Personally, sexual identity is
fine, so long as it's not broadcasted all over the list, which was
exactly what happened. Not to mention, some people might feel pressured
to talk about something they don't neccasarily feel comfortable talking
about. 

> will simply hit the *magical* Delete button and everybody gets happy
> because we (the l.../g.../bi... members of this list) will still have
> a little space (finally!) to express our opinions and the others (the
> vastmajority, I understand) won't be disturbed by it.

No one was excluding the lesbian/gay/bisexual members of the list. In
fact, everyone on this list is treated with quite a bit of respect, and
to my knowledge, those lesbian/gay/bisexual members of the list were not
exiled in any way. So, there's no need for the "space". And yes,
obviously the vast majority was disturbed, which poses for an even
greater argument against the open sexual identity discussion..sort of
like arguing against yourself.

> Come on, this is ridiculous. Hey you homophobic people, don't you know
> what movie are we talking about? Isn't it clear that "the" subject is
> relevant here? I'm sure no one of the l.../g.../bi... people here want
> to annoy or leave anybody out of the discussion, but one thing we all
> have to learn is to respect other people's opinions. That also goes >
for the "dislikes list" subject, of course.

You're right about one thing: this is ridiculous! Why should this be
that big of a deal? All that was said was that sexual identity wasn't
the smartest thing to openly talk about! I don't remember any slurs of
the sexist kind until now.  Also, this list was designed for the MOVIE,
not the sexual identity of the list, otherwise it would be called
"sexuality-c@lists.best.com"! You're right about another thing as well,
we all have to learn to respect everyone's opinion, but isn't a bit
hypocritical to say that after you just called the list homophobic? 

Just my $0.02

Regards,
Laurin


--------------- MESSAGE heavenly-c.v001.n876.3 ---------------

From: Shania610@aol.com
Subject: Re: sexual prefrence
Date: Mon, 10 Aug 1998 23:06:28 EDT
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

In a message dated 8/10/98 5:51:42 PM Central Daylight Time,
dalyric@writeme.com writes:

<< Geezzz...still sulking over that one? Again: I thought it was just
fun
 to see different opinions, the idea was defenately not to irritate
other
 people. >>


I agree with both sides. To ME it is interesting to hear different
points of
view and it helps to learn more about people by seeing what they do and
dont
like. 

It's really not about "different opinions". What it is about is courtesy
and not mentioning private matters. While this is an open list, some
things that are private topics will tend to annoy people. There are some
things you just shouldn't "openly" talk about, in my opinion.

And Laurin, I see what you are saying, but I agree with what someone
said, we
should put L,G,B or something like taht in the subject line, IMO, if
you arent
open about things, thats when trouble starts. to me, its all part of
life and
shouldnt be hidden. There are people who dont want to hear about it and
that
is their right. I just think that if people are more open about things,
there
will be less violence, and kids experimenting with things. I know it
doesnt
have much bearing on here, but you have to start somewhere. 

Also, i want to change my email...do i just send an unsub message to
this
address and then a subscribe one from my new one to it??? thanks!

karen


--------------- MESSAGE heavenly-c.v001.n876.4 ---------------

From: Laurin McNiff <englishpatient@home.com>
Subject: Re: sexual prefrence
Date: Tue, 11 Aug 1998 01:06:15 -0700
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
References: <199808110308.UAA02505@lists1.best.com>

> It's really not about "different opinions". What it is about is >
courtesy and not mentioning private matters. While this is an open 
> list, some things that are private topics will tend to annoy people. 

Exactly my point. Some things are meant to be private and not
neccasarily a good idea to discuss with complete (or near complete)
strangers.

> And Laurin, I see what you are saying, but I agree with what 
> someone said, we should put L,G,B or something like taht in the 
> subject line, IMO, if you arent open about things, thats when 
> trouble starts. to me, its all part of life and shouldnt be hidden. 

While this is true, I don't neccasarily feel that "labeling" is
neccasary. Remember, it wasn't the actual discussion of "other
sexualities" that disturbed the list, it was the discussion of the
list's sexuality. So, labeling isn't really needed because we've
discussed (in general mind you!) different sexualities and there was no
conflict, it's when listers are involved that it begins to unravel out
of control.

> There are people who dont want to hear about it and that
> is their right. I just think that if people are more open 
> about things, there will be less violence, and kids 
> experimenting with things. I know it doesnthave much 
> bearing on here, but you have to start somewhere.

While this may be true, it's a little bit overdrawn on the list.
Basically, this whole 'sexual preference' thing has blown far out of
proportion, whereas the majority of the list is looked at as sexist when
the whole thing was just a simple case of "some things are just too
personal to openly discuss". I wish that this would be realized and not
evolved into a mass sexuality war, which looks like that's exactly where
it's headed. 

Regards,
Laurin


--------------- MESSAGE heavenly-c.v001.n876.5 ---------------

From: IrishEMT12@aol.com
Subject: Re: sexual prefrence
Date: Tue, 11 Aug 1998 01:06:08 EDT
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

No offense but that person replied to a reply that a majority of this
list
responded to in a very open and friendly manner.  It is your life and
your
opinion that you believe there are things that should not be shared
with other
people, but who are you to tell others that they cannot say what they
want
????  This list of all others has been a very open and welcome list
since I
have been on it for on and off almost 2 years, and I hate to see a
flame war
started over the opinion of one, when it matters not.  Free country,
free
speech, are you knew to this concept ???

If you do not want to talk about yourself in that matter that is fine,
no one
asked, but donot tell us how we should behave in reguards to post
content, on
a public list.  Your efforts will only be futile, and in some cases
held with
disdain.  I know this because I have seen what one little, minute thing
turns
into a huge annoying, misunderstood, all out mailing list wear, and
that is
something this list has thus far bee immune from, please lets not cause
that
to change.

Jennifer EMT-B


--------------- MESSAGE heavenly-c.v001.n876.6 ---------------

From: IrishEMT12@aol.com
Subject: Disturbed (was SP)
Date: Tue, 11 Aug 1998 01:46:29 EDT
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

In a message dated 98-08-10 23:21:24 EDT, you write:

<< It's really not about "different opinions". What it is about is
courtesy
 and not mentioning private matters. While this is an open list, some
 things that are private topics will tend to annoy people. There are
some
 things you just shouldn't "openly" talk about, in my opinion.
  >>
  Ok ok, lets see, if this is going to be the case, we can no longer
mention
what we will be doing fro the weekend, or how our days went, or who we
are
dating male or female.  We cannot discuss anything that causes us to
relate to
this film in regards to sexuality.  Which by the way alot of us do. 
You seem
to have forgotten that this film is received so well by the gay
community
because of the relation felt when viewing it.  So for you to tell us
not to
discuss "private matters" with this list, disgusts me.  For you to say
that it
is wrong for us to want to know in what regards we relate to both the
film and
to the people on this list, it causes me to to consider you a very self-
righteous person.  And not only that but you must have seen a different
Heavenly creatures film than me.

Our common bond on this list is if I am not mistaken is the adoration
of the
1994 Film Heavenly Creatures, and some of its cast and crew.  Well, for
some
of us we relate to things in this movie and we try to bond to others on
this
list with those similarities.  

I think it is in poor taste for you to Judge and act like you are the
"owner"
or administrator of this list when you are surly not.  I know when that
topic
was on here there was an overwhelming amount of response, and a
majority of it
was from others who sexual preference you may not want to hear about. 
I do
not recall ever hearing anyone complain about that string of posts,
until just
now with you.

All you did Laurin is make some of the people who felt welcomed and
able to
speak openly on this list, where it may be the only place they can do
so,
recluse.  And that to me is the most offensive thing EVER done on this
list.

Sorry for taking up your time on what i believe to be a stupid flame
anyway,
but someone has to show disgust.

Jennifer 


--------------- MESSAGE heavenly-c.v001.n876.7 ---------------

From: PURPLEAVA@aol.com
Subject: Re: Sexual Preference (let's end this fight before it starts)
Date: Tue, 11 Aug 1998 02:00:22 EDT
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

Actually, Laurin, this was not an issue until you decided to make it
one.  The
"sexual preference" topic was abandoned long ago, as Jennifer said in an
earlier response.  The only complaint ever made against this topic was
that it
created a lot of off-topic mail because certain people bonded with each
other
due to this topic.  So those people just starting e-mailing each other
privately and it was never mentioned again.  The only mention of a list
member's sexual preference I have seen since then is when Christy
replied to
the old post about it just recently because she had been away on
vacation.
And no one else even replied to her post, so the subject was not
discussed at
length again.   So I think we should all just leave well enough alone
and drop
this topic.  No one has tried to make you discuss anything you don't
want to
discuss about yourself, so I think you should just ignore it when
something
you don't like is mentioned.  That is what the rest of us have to do
when a
topic we don't like or are not interested in comes up on the list; use
your
delete button.

And you said that there are certain things you don't think should be
discussed
on a publc list.  Well, that's what the word "public" means.  This list
is
open to anyone.  We are all similar in our love of the movie Heavenly
Creatures, but within this group of HC fans, there are going to be a
lot of
different types of people, with different preferences, ideas, and
opinions.
If we start criticizing or passing judgement over people every time
they say
something we don't approve of, the list will end up spending all its
time
arguing about what it can and cannot discuss.  If we can only say
things that
everyone likes, we will have to spend a lot of time being silent. 
Think about
that.

Ava :)


--------------- MESSAGE heavenly-c.v001.n876.8 ---------------

From: Laurin McNiff <englishpatient@home.com>
Subject: Re: Disturbed (was SP)
Date: Tue, 11 Aug 1998 03:08:23 -0700
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
References: <199808110548.WAA28142@lists1.best.com>

> Ok ok, lets see, if this is going to be the case, we can no 
> longer mention what we will be doing fro the weekend, or how 
> our days went, or who we are dating male or female.  We cannot 
> discuss anything that causes us to relate to this film in regards 
> to sexuality.  Which by the way alot of us do.  You seem to have 
> forgotten that this film is received so well by the gay community
> because of the relation felt when viewing it.  So for you to tell 
> us not to discuss "private matters" with this list, disgusts me.  

As Jean once said, "a mailing list isn't to be confused with a
life"...it seems as though this is becoming the reality of some. As for
me telling anyone to do anything, you're quite mistaken. I merely
suggested to the list that openly discussing OTHER lister's personal
life isn't neccasarily smart, no "ordering" of any kind was done. It was
my personal opinion. And, seeing as though you stated "free country,
free speech" I guess I'm quite entitled to it. Not to mention you seem
to practice it frequently.

> For you to say that it is wrong for us to want to know in what 
> regards we relate to both the film and to the people on this 
> list, it causes me to to consider you a very self-righteous person.  

Can someone refresh my memory? I seem to have forgotten becoming
dictator of the list. And, I seem to have forgotten ever saying that it
was wrong for anyone to say anything...must be an early case of
Alzheimers attacking me..

> And not only that but you must have seen a different
> Heavenly creatures film than me.

You couldn't be more correct! I'm dying to see the version you speak of!
To think I actually paid $40 for my US laserdisc version of Heavenly
Creatures..tsk tsk Laurin.

> Our common bond on this list is if I am not mistaken is the 
> adoration of the 1994 Film Heavenly Creatures, and some of its 
> cast and crew.  

You know, I think you're right. In fact, that's exactly the reason I
subscribed to this list.

> Well, for some of us we relate to things in this movie and we 
> try to bond to others on this list with those similarities.

I hadn't known this was a "Heavenly Creatures Self Help" list..

> I think it is in poor taste for you to Judge and act like you 
> are the "owner" or administrator of this list when you are surly 
> not.  I know when that topic was on here there was an overwhelming >
amount of response, and a majority of it was from others who sexual >
preference you may not want to hear about.  

That's quite a hypocritical statement, don't you think? You're judging
me for allegedly judging someone else. Also, I must be having the worst
memory loss today, because for the life of me I can't seem to remember
telling anyone or claiming to be "owner" or administrator of the list.
And, you're probably right, I might not want to hear about other's
sexual preference because it's not what I subscribed for. As I said
before, I'll say it yet again: "If I wanted to hear about everyone's
personal sexual preference, I would have joined
"sexuality-c@lists.best.com"."

> I do not recall ever hearing anyone complain about that string 
> of posts, until just now with you.

Hmm, strange, I seem to remember several posts about it..memory loss
strikes again!

> All you did Laurin is make some of the people who felt 
> welcomed and able to speak openly on this list, where it 
> may be the only place they can do so,recluse.  

Are you referring to just yourself, or a hidden crowd behind you that
I'm unable to see? For someone to be able to ONLY express themselves on
a mailing list is pretty sad, it just stresses the quote I addressed in
the beginning: "A mailing list is not to be confused with a life" which
is more than true.

> And that to me is the most offensive thing EVER done on this list.

And should I be crucified for a personal opinion? I don't think so,
because there have been a great many "personal opinions" expressed on
the list, and I don't expect mine to be some sort of "exception to the
rule".

> Sorry for taking up your time on what i believe to be a stupid flame
> > anyway, but someone has to show disgust.

Indeed, "someone" had to take control, and you did it so gracefully.

Regards,
Laurin


--------------- MESSAGE heavenly-c.v001.n876.9 ---------------

From: Laurin McNiff <englishpatient@home.com>
Subject: Re: Sexual Preference (let's end this fight before it starts)
Date: Tue, 11 Aug 1998 03:26:12 -0700
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
References: <199808110602.XAA07266@lists1.best.com>

> Actually, Laurin, this was not an issue until you decided to 
> make it one.  The "sexual preference" topic was abandoned long 
> ago, as Jennifer said in an earlier response.  

You're title is quite ironic, seeing as though it's primarily addressed
to me, assuming that I'm the only "problem". I addressed what I felt was
necessary *this is a point that has long since been stressed* and it was
merely a personal opinion, I did not address anyone in particular or
tell anyone to do anything.

> No one has tried to make you discuss anything you don't want to
> discuss about yourself, so I think you should just ignore it when >
something you don't like is mentioned.  

No, but it certainly seems as though a gracious plenty are attempting to
"shut" me up. That's funny you should mention "ignoring" something I
don't like. I've seen PLENTY of posts regarding things that listers
didn't like, and they freely posted their opinion (somehow, miraculously
without being singed in the flames). So, now I'm being dictated. What
next?

> That is what the rest of us have to do when a
> topic we don't like or are not interested in comes up on the list;
use > your delete button.

See above. I see the role of administrator is being put to grand use
here. "use your delete button". I'm aware that it exists, but telling me
to use it? Why not come out with it and tell me my posts aren't wanted..

> And you said that there are certain things you don't think should be
> discussed on a publc list.  

That's right, and I'm a firm believer of the "don't ask;don't tell"
policy. Would you walk up to a complete stranger on the street and
question them:"What is your sexual identity?" I didn't think so.

> Well, that's what the word "public" means.  

You stressed my point so well that I have no comment!

> This list is open to anyone.  We are all similar in our love of the >
movie Heavenly Creatures, but within this group of HC fans, there are >
going to be a lot of different types of people, with different >
preferences, ideas, and opinions.

Irony at it's finest. I'm being told that my opinions are worthless, all
the while being explained to that "a variety of opinions will exist".
It's almost like arguing with yourself..which I've said before.


> If we start criticizing or passing judgement over people every 
> time they say something we don't approve of, the list will end up >
spending all its time arguing about what it can and cannot discuss.  
> If we can only say things thateveryone likes, we will have to spend 
> a lot of time being silent.  Think about that.

Again, irony at it's golden moments. I'm being told not to criticize
others' judgment when this particular email is scrutinizing my opinion
and judging me at the same time. It's really amazing..

Regards,
Laurin


--------------- MESSAGE heavenly-c.v001.n876.10 ---------------

From: Christy Price <christy@tyler.net>
Subject: Time Out For a Sec
Date: Tue, 11 Aug 1998 01:50:00 -0700
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

May I make a suggestion? And please understand, this is not a slam or
flame against anyone.  
Perhaps it would work for the good of all if a person is having a
problem with someone, something someone said, things like
that if you respond directly to the person, it might make the list a
more enjoyable place.

Please hear me, this is NOT a slam on anyone. And I'm not saying that
anyone has "damped the spirits of the list" or anything
I'm not laying any sort of blame or anything like that okay? I will
probably get mail concerning this email, something to the
effect to butt out, but I had to speak.  I hope this doesn't sound like
a "holier-than-thou" speech. 

--Christy-lets-all-have-a-group-Hug-Price



--------------- END heavenly-c.v001.n876 ---------------

-------------- BEGIN heavenly-c.v001.n877 --------------

    001 - PURPLEAVA@aol.com         - Re: Why do we love HC
    002 - Christy Price <christy@ty - A Tragedy Has Struck-for me
anyway!
    003 - PURPLEAVA@aol.com         - Re: Sexual Preference (let's end
this fight before it starts)
    004 - Laurin McNiff <englishpat - Re: Sexual Preference (let's end
this fight before it starts)
    005 - lyric <dalyric@writeme.co - Let's end this fight (since it
already started)
    006 - "E. Jean Guerin" <orson@v - 2cents: sexual preference!
    007 - "E. Jean Guerin" <orson@v - Re: Disturbed (was SP)
    008 - Juliana Bastos <jbastos@u - Re: OT:Sexual Preference
(ReIssued!)
    009 - Juliana Bastos <jbastos@u - Re: 2cents: sexual preference!
    010 - Christy Price <christy@ty - "Not All Angels Are Innocent"

--------------- MESSAGE heavenly-c.v001.n877.1 ---------------

From: PURPLEAVA@aol.com
Subject: Re: Why do we love HC
Date: Tue, 11 Aug 1998 02:56:50 EDT
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

In a message dated 98-08-10 18:53:15 EDT, you write:

<<  I too would like a relationship like juliet and paul had and wish
 it could have ended differently. Thats why i am here! =)
 
 Karen
  >>

Similar end result, different path to get there.  I watched HC because
I fell
in love with Kate after seeing Titanic.  I was really impressed with
her so I
wanted to see all her work.  HC was the first other one of Kate's films
that I
watched and I loved it from the first time I saw it.  I too would like
to have
a friendship like Juliet and Pauline had, but with a different ending
(obviously!).

Ava :)


--------------- MESSAGE heavenly-c.v001.n877.2 ---------------

From: Christy Price <christy@tyler.net>
Subject: A Tragedy Has Struck-for me anyway!
Date: Tue, 11 Aug 1998 02:16:58 -0700
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

How is this for great tragedy....my vcr (I have one of those t.v/vcr
combos) has messed up and I can no longer watch movies (i.e. Heavenly
Creatures!!!)...okay, this might not be THAT big a tragedy, but I am
devastated nonetheless.  Sigh..my poor tv/vcr has never been the same
ever since my nephew came to visit and stuffed two Rice Krispie Treats,
some pennies and a pack of playing cards in it...*sniff*
--Christy



--------------- MESSAGE heavenly-c.v001.n877.3 ---------------

From: PURPLEAVA@aol.com
Subject: Re: Sexual Preference (let's end this fight before it starts)
Date: Tue, 11 Aug 1998 03:26:51 EDT
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

In a message dated 98-08-11 02:51:57 EDT, you write:

<< Again, irony at it's golden moments. I'm being told not to criticize
 others' judgment when this particular email is scrutinizing my opinion
 and judging me at the same time. It's really amazing..
 
 Regards,
 Laurin
  >>

I'm not scrutinizing or judging your original opinion.  If you don't
like
something that's discussed on this list, that's fine.  What I'm
criticizing is
the way you responded to it, telling us that we shouldn't discuss
certain
topics on the list when no one else had ever objected to it.  You say
they
did, just give me one example.  People asked to stop the amount of
off-topic
mail; they never complained about the topic itself.
And in my latest post, I was trying to stop an argument, but all I got
from
you was attitude.  You are just picking a fight now.

Ava


--------------- MESSAGE heavenly-c.v001.n877.4 ---------------

From: Laurin McNiff <englishpatient@home.com>
Subject: Re: Sexual Preference (let's end this fight before it starts)
Date: Tue, 11 Aug 1998 05:28:42 -0700
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
References: <199808110728.AAA02276@lists1.best.com>

> And in my latest post, I was trying to stop an argument, but 
> all I got from you was attitude.  You are just picking a fight now.

There's a difference between "trying to stop an argument" and basically
reading me my rights, which was clearly what was being done. Personally
speaking, a 2 page email *addressed to everyone, keep in mind* is not
"trying" to stop anything. If anything it's merely adding fuel to the
ever growing bonfire. The fight was "picked" when I was mass flamed for
stating a personal opinion. "Think about that."

Regards,
Laurin


--------------- MESSAGE heavenly-c.v001.n877.5 ---------------

From: lyric <dalyric@writeme.com>
Subject: Let's end this fight (since it already started)
Date: Tue, 11 Aug 1998 12:29:33 +0200
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
References: <199808110602.XAA07266@lists1.best.com>
<199808110638.XAA01135@lists1.best.com>

Okay people, Oprah speaking here...*jk* 
I haven't been a member of this list for too long and just to be on the
safe side: I'm not trying to 'control' this list or telling what should
and what shouldn't be the topic, but I do think that this 'fight' has to
end because it's leading nowhere. It's only proving that what should be
seen as a 'private topic' is a ver difficult question, and considering
that, I think we won't make progress arguing about whether to post about
them or not. I noticed emails about this topic are getting less friendly
and I think this is the moment to stop all this before people are
getting hurt.
Although I do not agree with Laurin's opinions I do appreciate the fact
that she told us she thinks the gay/lesbian topic is supposed to be a
private one. That's just how she feels, and I accept that. Laurin has
had quite a few angry emails, while she was just expressing her
feelings.
This is however an open list, which (according to me) means that not
only Laurin, but everyone can subscribe to it and give his/her opinion
without deliberately hurting other people's feelings. As short as I've
been a member, I can't remember anyone hurting someone else on purpose.
Sometimes we all get carried away and emails become off-topic. And yes,
some of those emails will not be interesting to a few of us, but very
important to others. The delete-button is an easy one to find. Let's
just not judge eachother...opinions will always be different. All we can
do is accept eachother for who we are. We're all creatures, aren't we?

Marloes-joining-Christy's-group-hug (-:

-- 
I am going your way,
so let us go hand in hand
- William Morris




--------------- MESSAGE heavenly-c.v001.n877.6 ---------------

From: "E. Jean Guerin" <orson@videotron.ca>
Subject: 2cents: sexual preference!
Date: Tue, 11 Aug 98 12:12:44 -0400
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII"

Juliana Bastos wrote:

>the list post something with "that secret" content,

WHOA! Let's not get carried away here!

I have NO problem with people posting about their prefs. I have a
problem 
with it being asked openly. I also have a problem with it becomong a 
question on a "form" Some people like to keep their sex lives private.

i.e. Don't ask! Don't tell.

I won't! I didn't! And I have the distinction of being the first male 
actor in history to play in a lesbian love scene.

(And when I made that joke on the set, Melanie asked me "Jean, do you 
want to get shot in the head?")

I think the difference here is discussing personal fantasies. I think 
there are some margins that can be drawn just out of respect for
others' 
sensibilities.

Also a reminder that posting on the net may make you attract the 
attention of some pretty creepy "lurkers". I'm not saying "be quiet"
I'm 
just saying "Be discreet and be SAFE"

Look at the list as a cocktail party. While you may discuss some of it
in 
a corner with another partygoer you don't go bellowing about your
private 
life for all to hear. 

Of course HC touches on lesbianism but this shouldn't turn into a sex 
fantasy forum.

There is a difference between being open and broadcasting it.

(:^)]



--------------- MESSAGE heavenly-c.v001.n877.7 ---------------

From: "E. Jean Guerin" <orson@videotron.ca>
Subject: Re: Disturbed (was SP)
Date: Tue, 11 Aug 98 12:18:21 -0400
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII"

IrishEMT12@aol.com wrote:

>All you did Laurin is make some of the people who felt welcomed and
able to
>speak openly on this list, where it may be the only place they can do
so,
>recluse.  And that to me is the most offensive thing EVER done on this
list.

I want to point out that Laurin did not complain when it was the
question 
of preference. She just pointed out her discomfort when fantasies
became 
the topic.

If I were to spell out my fantasies, it'd make a lot of people run, 
screaming. 

This is not a censorship issue, folks. It's about using common sense.

(:^)]



--------------- MESSAGE heavenly-c.v001.n877.8 ---------------

From: Juliana Bastos <jbastos@usp.br>
Subject: Re: OT:Sexual Preference (ReIssued!)
Date: Tue, 11 Aug 1998 13:38:09 -0300
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
References: <199808101246.FAA00906@lists1.best.com>
<199808102116.OAA21215@lists1.best.com>
<199808102302.QAA23625@lists1.best.com>
<199808110216.TAA20903@lists1.best.com>
<199808110300.UAA25404@lists1.best.com>

Laurin McNiff wrote:
> 
> Julianna, as much as I value you as a list member

Thanks, but please, just one "n".

I really wasn't going to write anything more about this, since I'm
pretty sure I made myself very clear. But since I was personally
mentioned, I feel that I need to add a couple of lines on this.

> Personally, sexual identity is
> fine, so long as it's not broadcasted all over the list, which was
> exactly what happened. 

Please, you don't know what happened here, you didn't read those posts.
Don't say that you know "exactly what happened" because you don't.

> And yes,
> obviously the vast majority was disturbed,

You must have known I was being ironic when I wrote that... You know, I
was going through some of those messages and I counted about 15 people
who felt they wanted to come out to the list, and two who complained
(you included). So that makes me think, if the vast majority here was
disturbed, they didn't say it so and at least didn't refrain others from
expressing their opinions.

Don't even bother to reply to this, Laurin ('cos something tells me that
you probably will...), I won't go on with this discussion (now everybody
says "Thanks God!", me included). I just want to make sure that no
matter what you say - and, believe me, I do respect your opinions - I
will continue to express my thoughts on sexual preferences (now that I
know this subject is welcomed by many) or whatever else I find relevant
here.

:*
Juliana.



--------------- MESSAGE heavenly-c.v001.n877.9 ---------------

From: Juliana Bastos <jbastos@usp.br>
Subject: Re: 2cents: sexual preference!
Date: Tue, 11 Aug 1998 13:48:29 -0300
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
References: <199808111610.JAA16726@lists1.best.com>

> I think the difference here is discussing personal fantasies. I think
> there are some margins that can be drawn just out of respect for
others'
> sensibilities.

Correct me if I'm wrong, I must have missed it but when did anyone talk
here about "personal fantasies"?? I surely didn't. And I don't think
that anybody here was forced to answer any question they didn't want to.

But don't worry, Jean, I don't take it as seriously as some may think.
It's just a matter of coping with each other's differences: we all can
learn a lot with this subject :)

:*
Juliana.


--------------- MESSAGE heavenly-c.v001.n877.10 ---------------

From: Christy Price <christy@tyler.net>
Subject: "Not All Angels Are Innocent"
Date: Tue, 11 Aug 1998 12:28:43 -0700
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

I have a question about the aforementioned quote. I have seen it on
alot of websites
and wondered if perhaps it was like on the movie or something, how the
phrase came into 
existence and all.  Just curious--Christy



--------------- END heavenly-c.v001.n877 ---------------

-------------- BEGIN heavenly-c.v001.n878 --------------

    001 - LuvleeNine@aol.com        - Re: "Not All Angels Are Innocent"
    002 - Laurin McNiff <englishpat - Re: "Not All Angels Are Innocent"
    003 - Christy Price <christy@ty - OT: ICQ..
    004 - Leanne McMahon <leanne.mc - OT: Re: Game On
    005 - Corrie Vierregger <suebri - Re: sexual prefrence...!!!!
    006 - Laurin McNiff <englishpat - Re: OT:Sexual Preference
(ReIssued!)
    007 - Shania610@aol.com         - Re: OT: ICQ..
    008 - Stephen Bull <sybull@line - Question...
    009 - lyric <dalyric@writeme.co - Typo...
    010 - PURPLEAVA@aol.com         - Re: Disturbed (was SP)

--------------- MESSAGE heavenly-c.v001.n878.1 ---------------

From: LuvleeNine@aol.com
Subject: Re: "Not All Angels Are Innocent"
Date: Tue, 11 Aug 1998 13:39:07 EDT
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

I do believe that the above mentioned quote is on the cover of the
movie.
Also, I know they used it a lot in the newspaper articles back then, as
I've
seen some of them.
 *LUV9*
~Nasrin~


--------------- MESSAGE heavenly-c.v001.n878.2 ---------------

From: Laurin McNiff <englishpatient@home.com>
Subject: Re: "Not All Angels Are Innocent"
Date: Tue, 11 Aug 1998 14:31:01 -0700
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
References: <199808111726.KAA15301@lists1.best.com>

> I have a question about the aforementioned quote. I have seen it on
alot of websites
> and wondered if perhaps it was like on the movie or something, how
the phrase came into
> existence and all.  Just curious--Christy

Rather than have a small synopsis for the posters and VHS covers, that's
the phrase that's used: "Not All Angels Are Innocent" inferring that
adolesence is innocent but their crime was not.

Regards,
Laurin


--------------- MESSAGE heavenly-c.v001.n878.3 ---------------

From: Christy Price <christy@tyler.net>
Subject: OT: ICQ..
Date: Tue, 11 Aug 1998 12:42:56 -0700
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

Me again ("what? she has no life?" *G*)
Okay, I am trying to build up my contact list on ICQ and I want as many
of my HC
buddies as I can get.  If anyone has ICQ and would like to be added
please email me.
I know I have asked this once before and people have sent responses but
alot of my emails
have managed to become lost (stinking computer) so please email me
again!
--Christy-GroupHug-Price



--------------- MESSAGE heavenly-c.v001.n878.4 ---------------

From: Leanne McMahon <leanne.mcmahon@virgin.net>
Subject: OT: Re: Game On
Date: Tue, 11 Aug 1998 18:55:15 -0700
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

> >>>Hi! I wondered if anyone has seen this show... it revolves (from
what I
> can understand of the 3ish episodes I've seen =)) around 3 housemates,
> the
> house is owned by the actor from The Truth About Cats And Dogs (can't
> remember his name at the moment).... kinda weird and stupid, but still
> interesting and I wondered what others thought of thte show,
etc....<<<
>
> I absolutley LOVE Game On!!! My only criticism is that after the first
> series they had to change the actor who plays Matt because Ben Chaplin
> was off doing movies but aside from that I think it's fantastic. There
> has been three series to date so you've got plenty to look forward to.
>
> -Leanne

>so... how did this show 'begin'?
>is Matt unable to leave the flat?

Yeah he's got a fear of going outside (I forget the name for it) and
the 
reason he can live in the flat without a job is because his parents
died 
in a car accident and left him loads of money.
The show didn't really 'begin' in any way different to any other
episode 
really, it's always been the three of them doing . . . whatever.

-Leanne

--------------- MESSAGE heavenly-c.v001.n878.5 ---------------

From: Corrie Vierregger <suebridehead@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: sexual prefrence...!!!!
Date: Tue, 11 Aug 1998 11:10:48 -0700 (PDT)
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii

In February when I got this computer I found this great list and
subscribed to it. Since then I've been on and off on various e-mail
addresses. 

I decided to come back and check on my HC mail today. I never really
posted much on this list but this whole sexual prefrence deal is
getting really annoying. I don't need this crap filling up my inbox. 

What ever happened to the cute little stories about how we saw Kate at
the ATM machine with a bindi on her head? Stuff someone actually
wanted to read?

I have nothing at all against gay/les/bi people. Nothing. But when you
have to rub it in someone's face like they're a bad person because
they arn't a homosexual? That's just wrong. I mean, what's the point?
What do you all want? I seriously don't get it. 

It's a list for a MOVIE. Or am I wrong? Did I accidently sign up for
the wrong list? Listen, if you guys want, I could go make a goddamned
gay list for you to all debate on. Then the people simply wanting to
talk about HC, Kate, Mel, etc. can go about their business freely and
in peace. 

I'm sorry if I've affended anyone. But please? Can we drop it and go
on with our lives? 

Thanks.
==
-corrie

"Once you get to know sad...she's got some sweet little dresses, you
know?" 
_________________________________________________________
DO YOU YAHOO!?
Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com



--------------- MESSAGE heavenly-c.v001.n878.6 ---------------

From: Laurin McNiff <englishpatient@home.com>
Subject: Re: OT:Sexual Preference (ReIssued!)
Date: Tue, 11 Aug 1998 14:58:07 -0700
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
References: <199808101246.FAA00906@lists1.best.com>
<199808102116.OAA21215@lists1.best.com>
<199808102302.QAA23625@lists1.best.com>
<199808110216.TAA20903@lists1.best.com>
<199808110300.UAA25404@lists1.best.com>
<199808111644.JAA12896@lists1.best.com>

> Thanks, but please, just one "n".

There are such things as typos.

> I really wasn't going to write anything more about this, since I'm
> pretty sure I made myself very clear. But since I was personally
> mentioned, I feel that I need to add a couple of lines on this.

Speaking of "personally mentioned" I believe I'll have to reply to this
one as well. Especially since NONE of these letters were addressed to my
mailbox, but rather broadcasted to the list. So, I'll be adding "a
couple of lines".
 

> Please, you don't know what happened here, you didn't read those 
> posts. Don't say that you know "exactly what happened" because 
> you don't.

That's funny, I seem to remember reading ALL of the messages referring
to sexual identity, they didn't "disappear". I guess you of all people
should know that once sent, mail stays.

> You must have known I was being ironic when I wrote that... 

Hmm, perhaps.

> You know, I was going through some of those messages and I 
> counted about 15 people who felt they wanted to come out to 
> the list, and two who complained (you included). 

It's all well and good for someone to "come out", but this isn't a
"coming out" list, and if someone would like to come out, perhaps it
would be a good idea to address single parties, and not the whole list.
There may be a few on the list that think reading about others'
sexuality is fun, interesting or whatever, but personally speaking it's
just not a good idea to do, because there will always be someone who
doesn't like it, feels uncomfortable or what have you. And don't start
taking a census of the list, it's not necessary. There's nothing to be
"proven". Do you know exactly how many people are on this list? I didn't
think so. So, bearing that in mind perhaps these "two" people you
mention is really more than just two. Keep in mind that many members of
the list don't keep up with their mail, or just don't feel the energy or
need to respond. 

> So that makes me think, if the vast majority here was
> disturbed, they didn't say it so and at least didn't 
> refrain others from expressing their opinions.

Bravo! Exactly my point! There are those who don't reply when something
bothers them, and then there are those that do.

> Don't even bother to reply to this, Laurin ('cos something 
> tells me that you probably will...), I won't go on with this 
> discussion (now everybody says "Thanks God!", me included). 

Really? So now I'm being told what to do on the list. It's really quite
astounding how ironic this is. Re-read that, you're telling me to keep
quiet (even though you sent me a personal response) and that you're
dropping the subject. This would have been more than appreciated had it
been sent directly to me and not broadcasted to the list. But, since it
was the latter what do you expect? That's not quite fair to tell someone
publicly to shut up and expect them to do as requested.

> I just want to make sure that no matter what you say - and, 
> believe me, I do respect your opinions - Iwill continue to 
> express my thoughts on sexual preferences (now that I know 
> this subject is welcomed by many) or whatever else I find 
> relevant here.

A little contradicting, don't you think? To tell me you respect my
opinions yet to reply to me as you have? And, personally speaking, I
will "continue to express my thoughts on sexual preference or whatever
else I find relevant here". What makes you think I'm to be excluded? I
think that's a little "self righteous".

Regards,
Laurin


--------------- MESSAGE heavenly-c.v001.n878.7 ---------------

From: Shania610@aol.com
Subject: Re: OT: ICQ..
Date: Tue, 11 Aug 1998 14:43:04 EDT
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

go ahead and add me, I am not on MUCH, but my # is 8154953

I forget which email i use,.....think it is my new one Karen0610, or it
could
be this one. I am sick so cant think. Also feel free to get me on AOL
im if
you have that!

lter!
karen


--------------- MESSAGE heavenly-c.v001.n878.8 ---------------

From: Stephen Bull <sybull@lineone.net>
Subject: Question...
Date: Tue, 11 Aug 1998 20:19:18 +0100
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

What does "Lesbian" Mean ?

ONLY JOKING !

I was listening to my Aerosmith Greatest hits tape the other day, and I
was listening to the track "Kings & Queens" (I think that is what it is
called) and from what I could make out of the lyrics, it sounded very
appropriate to HC...Does anyone have the lyrics to hand. I would like to
find out.

Sorry to hear about the VCR christy, hope you can get I fixed. My video
has had some crap put in it...namely Pamela Anderson's "Barbed Wire"
film ! LOL

Stephen







--------------- MESSAGE heavenly-c.v001.n878.9 ---------------

From: lyric <dalyric@writeme.com>
Subject: Typo...
Date: Tue, 11 Aug 1998 21:47:31 +0200
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
References: <199808101246.FAA00906@lists1.best.com>
<199808102116.OAA21215@lists1.best.com>
<199808102302.QAA23625@lists1.best.com>
<199808110216.TAA20903@lists1.best.com>
<199808110300.UAA25404@lists1.best.com>
<199808111644.JAA12896@lists1.best.com>
<199808111810.LAA17969@lists1.best.com>

Hi all,
I have a little question about a typo on the soundtrack...I only got it
recently.
On the back of the sleeve it says: 2. Meet the Reipers (Dasent). This
has probably been discovered before and I'm sorry to bother you with it
again but I'm still wondering about one thing:
How come this mistake was never corrected after the first prints? Or is
the first edition the only one? Does anyone know who designed the
booklet and made this mistake? If not, would anyone be interested to
know? I'm willing to find it out, if anyone cares...

Take care,
Marloes

-- 
I am going your way,
so let us go hand in hand
- William Morris



--------------- MESSAGE heavenly-c.v001.n878.10 ---------------

From: PURPLEAVA@aol.com
Subject: Re: Disturbed (was SP)
Date: Tue, 11 Aug 1998 16:14:13 EDT
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

In a message dated 98-08-11 12:25:45 EDT, you write:

<< I want to point out that Laurin did not complain when it was the
question 
 of preference. She just pointed out her discomfort when fantasies
became 
 the topic.
  >>

I'm not trying to argue with you Jean, but I don't remember any
fantasies
being discussed on the list.  There were a few jokes made about kissing
Kate,
but that's it, at least as far as I remember.  And there were no
complaints
about the topic (again, that I can remember) until Laurin's.  I agree
that she
has a right to her opinion, but I think what made some of angry is the
way she
stated that opinion.  It seemed to me like she was TELLING the rest of
us what
we can and cannot discuss on this list.

Ava :)


--------------- END heavenly-c.v001.n878 ---------------

-------------- BEGIN heavenly-c.v001.n879 --------------

    001 - "Eileene Coscolluela" <ec - Re: Disturbed (was SP)
    002 - Stephen Bull <sybull@line - Aerosmith Lyrics
    003 - "E. Jean Guerin" <orson@v - I'm a Lesbian trapped in a man's
body!!!
    004 - PURPLEAVA@aol.com         - Re: I'm a Lesbian trapped in a
man's body!!!
    005 - "paula r. mauro" <paula@t - Re: Disturbed (was SP)
    006 - PURPLEAVA@aol.com         - A ? for the Creatures
    007 - Sharon Bowker <sbowker1@p - Orientation, etc.
    008 - "E. Jean Guerin" <orson@v - Re: Disturbed (was SP)
    009 - IrishEMT12@aol.com        - Re: Disturbed (was SP)
    010 - IrishEMT12@aol.com        - Re: Disturbed (was SP)

--------------- MESSAGE heavenly-c.v001.n879.1 ---------------

From: "Eileene Coscolluela" <ecoscolluela@kinderhook.com>
Subject: Re: Disturbed (was SP)
Date: Tue, 11 Aug 1998 16:49:52 -0400
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Disposition: inline


Ava wrote:
<<I agree that she
has a right to her opinion, but I think what made some of angry is the
way
she
stated that opinion.  It seemed to me like she was TELLING the rest of
us
what
we can and cannot discuss on this list.>>

     Hmm.. I disagree here.  Atleast, looking back at previous emails.
     It seems to me that the worst thing that Laurin did was to be the
first person to write something objectionable about it, and people made
it
seem as if she was objecting to the sexual orientation part of it, not
the
concept of "what should and shouldn't generally be discussed".  I
believe
that Laurin was doing nothing of the sort.  She was not saying that
l/g/b/t
discussion offended her.  Quoting Laurin,

>>It's really not about "different opinions". What it is about is
courtesy
and not mentioning private matters. While this is an open list, some
things that are private topics will tend to annoy people. There are some
things you just shouldn't "openly" talk about, in my opinion.<<

     This is leaning towards conservative conversation's side, not on
the
side of someone that is "homophobic" as Laurin has been accused of
being.
I feel that the concept of Laurin "telling" us what to say and not to
say
is an extreme view and nothing that Laurin said, atleast to me, appears
to
be her telling us what is appropriate and inappropriate.  She's always
been
clear that what she's saying is her opinion.

     I hope that people can look back at previous mailings and see how
this
issue has been blown completely out of proportion.  I hope that we can
move
on in this discussion and keep in mind that this is an "open" list with
people of varying ages and cultures.

     Eileene =)
     ecoscolluela@kinderhook.com




--------------- MESSAGE heavenly-c.v001.n879.2 ---------------

From: Stephen Bull <sybull@lineone.net>
Subject: Aerosmith Lyrics
Date: Tue, 11 Aug 1998 22:35:00 +0100
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit

Hiya all,

Found the lyrics I was looking for and I don't know about you, I think
but they do sort of fits HC...what do you think? It has everything in
there from maidens to bishops....or am I just seeing HC everywher I
turn? If that is the case, then I guess next time I leave a cinema I
will find Jean chasing me !

(I don't know if this is a breach of copyright, but I found it on
another net site)

Stephen

From Aerosmith's song "Kings & Queens"

Long ago in days untold
Were ruled by lords of greed
Maidens fair, with gold they dared
To bare their wombs that bleed
Kings And Queens and guillotines
Taking lives denied
Starch and parchments laid the laws
When bishops took the ride

Only to deceive

Oh I know I
Lived this life before
Somehow I know now
Truths I must be sure
Tossin' turnin', nightmares burnin'
Dreams of swords in hand
Sailing ships, the Viking spits
The blood of father's land

Only to deceive

Living times of knights and mares
Raising swords for maidens fair
Sneer at death, fear only loss of pride
Living other centuries
Deja vú or what you please
Follows true to all who do or die
Screams of no reply
They died
Screams of no reply
And died
Lordy, Lordy, they died



--------------- MESSAGE heavenly-c.v001.n879.3 ---------------

From: "E. Jean Guerin" <orson@videotron.ca>
Subject: I'm a Lesbian trapped in a man's body!!!
Date: Tue, 11 Aug 98 18:08:54 -0400
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII"

PURPLEAVA@aol.com wrote:

>It seemed to me like she was TELLING the rest of us what
>we can and cannot discuss on this list.

Laurin's note was more of a groan in anticipation of where this could
be 
spinning off to. And judging from the flame she got, I can see why she 
expressed her concern. 
It's not just that we discussed sexual orientation (that was ok- just a 
tad overstepping the private for some). It's just that the last time
this 
string showed up this list almost turned into some online dating chat 
room.

I think there was some overreaction to Laurin's comment. 

Besides, dissing people on the net isn't fun. 

I'm sure that one wants to be known as a FLAMING homosexual here.

 



(:^)]



--------------- MESSAGE heavenly-c.v001.n879.4 ---------------

From: PURPLEAVA@aol.com
Subject: Re: I'm a Lesbian trapped in a man's body!!!
Date: Tue, 11 Aug 1998 18:38:44 EDT
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

In a message dated 98-08-11 18:23:44 EDT, you write:

<< It's just that the last time this 
 string showed up this list almost turned into some online dating chat 
 room.
  >>

LOL, I'll have to admit that that's true.  But now its over and I'm not
going
to mention anything about this argument on the list again.  That's all
I have
to say about that.  Have a nice day fellow Creatures!

Ava :)


--------------- MESSAGE heavenly-c.v001.n879.5 ---------------

From: "paula r. mauro" <paula@tank.razorfish.com>
Subject: Re: Disturbed (was SP)
Date: Tue, 11 Aug 1998 18:41:56 -0400
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
In-Reply-To: <199808112052.NAA20047@lists1.best.com>

I've been watching this discussion; anyone mind if I take a crack at
this?

It seems to me that folks are reacting to Laurin's post because things
get
kind of scary for queer folks when other folks tell them "Could you
please
not talk about that."

I agree that postings should be kept relevent--  Limited "me-too's",
keeping discussions between 2 people that only pertain to those 2 people
relegated to private email addresses, perhaps marking clearly
non-HC-related postings (those about a band or audio-visual technology,
etc.).  I also agree that, as long as listers are not being mean or
rude or
posting their plans to assassinate heads of state, folks should exercise
their right to not participate in discussions that do not appeal to
them.
If you do not want to be privy to information regarding somebody's
sexual
preference, exercise your right to delete any email containing the
subject
"Sexual preference."

The fact is that a lot of people think that homosexuality - and
lesbians in
particular - has a lot to do with this movie.  And a lot of people think
that their own sexuality shapes their analysis of the movie.  Others are
just grateful to find other gay/lesbian/bi folks with whom they have
something in common to connect with.  The "don't ask don't tell" policy
tends to only come up when pople's homosexuality is being discussed,
hardly
ever when straight folks are talking about actors or actresses of the
opposite sex that they think are attractive, spouses, so on and so
forth.
So it makes us feel a little bit like we're being shut up.  And that can
make people kind of lash out.

Jean's "lesbian in a man's body" posting just came across my screen,
and it
turns out he's said some of what I was hoping to get at.  So I'm pretty
much going to leave it at this.  Though this has already been somewhat
lengthy.

But just one more thing:  I'd really like to encourage people to not
reply
to flames with flames.  If you feel you've been attacked, and you attack
back,  you won't have put the flamer in his or her place; you will have
sent an invitation for further flames.  And then we all have 15 flames
to
read.  And the negative vibe can make you cranky.

>Ava wrote:
><<I agree that she
>has a right to her opinion, but I think what made some of angry is the
way
>she
>stated that opinion.  It seemed to me like she was TELLING the rest of
us
>what
>we can and cannot discuss on this list.>>
>
>     Hmm.. I disagree here.  Atleast, looking back at previous emails.
>     It seems to me that the worst thing that Laurin did was to be the
>first person to write something objectionable about it, and people
made it
>seem as if she was objecting to the sexual orientation part of it, not
the
>concept of "what should and shouldn't generally be discussed".  I
believe
>that Laurin was doing nothing of the sort.  She was not saying that
l/g/b/t
>discussion offended her.  Quoting Laurin,
>
>>>It's really not about "different opinions". What it is about is
courtesy
>and not mentioning private matters. While this is an open list, some
>things that are private topics will tend to annoy people. There are
some
>things you just shouldn't "openly" talk about, in my opinion.<<
>
>     This is leaning towards conservative conversation's side, not on
the
>side of someone that is "homophobic" as Laurin has been accused of
being.
>I feel that the concept of Laurin "telling" us what to say and not to
say
>is an extreme view and nothing that Laurin said, atleast to me,
appears to
>be her telling us what is appropriate and inappropriate.  She's always
been
>clear that what she's saying is her opinion.
>
>     I hope that people can look back at previous mailings and see how
this
>issue has been blown completely out of proportion.  I hope that we can
move
>on in this discussion and keep in mind that this is an "open" list with
>people of varying ages and cultures.
>
>     Eileene =)
>     ecoscolluela@kinderhook.com





--------------- MESSAGE heavenly-c.v001.n879.6 ---------------

From: PURPLEAVA@aol.com
Subject: A ? for the Creatures
Date: Tue, 11 Aug 1998 18:41:25 EDT
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

Does anyone know when Mel Lynsky's movie Foreign Correspondants will be
coming
out?

Ava :)


--------------- MESSAGE heavenly-c.v001.n879.7 ---------------

From: Sharon Bowker <sbowker1@purdue.edu>
Subject: Orientation, etc.
Date: Tue, 11 Aug 1998 18:17:01 -0500
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; CHARSET=US-ASCII

Hello Heavenly Friends,

I was going to steer clear of this debate but then thought I might be
able to 
put a voice to some (not all!) of the "silent listers' that keep being 
referenced in regards to the sexual orientation debate. My recollection
of the 
way the issue came up originally was that one lister...and a brave one
at 
that...confessed that part of the reason she was so moved by HC was
because so 
many of Pauline and Juliet's adolescent experiences mirrored her
own...and she 
was a lesbian. This prompted a few other listers to "come out"...either
to show 
support for this individual or to share a common experience...which is
precisely 
what this forum is about. I was not offended in anyway...nor did I feel
the 
issue was off-topic.

This exchange resulted in someone else wondering outloud about the
sexual 
orientation of listers...since it obviously had some bearing on how a
person 
relates to the film. The question was asked rather playfully as I
recall, and I 
felt no pressure to provide an answer and did not. Nor was I offended
when 
others did choose to answer it. For some of them it was the first time
they had 
ever admitted to being gay...and I'm guessing it was probably a pretty
scary 
thing to do. This must have seemed like a safe place to do it and I was
kind of 
proud of all of us for that.

If there was anything that I felt was just the slightest bit
inappropriate 
and/or annoying...it was when a few...not all...of the newly "out"
listers began 
posting messages that one would normally find in a singles chatroom.
Someone 
kindly suggested that they send those messages to each other privately
and they 
stopped showing up on the list almost immediately. Sexual orientation
of 
individual listers has not been a a big topic of discussion since...at
least not 
that I can recall. Until  a lister who had been away and was catching
up 
responded to "the" question the other day. I don't remember anyone
sharing any 
lesbian fantasies at any time...unless you count some straight female
listers 
who admitted that they had occasionally "thought" about what it would
be like to 
be with another woman. (Quite frankly, I don't know how any woman who
has ever 
watched the "Night with the Saints" can say with complete honesty that
she 
hasn't thought about it!)  But hey...that's just my opinion! And every
opinion 
is valid!)

One of the things I value most about this list is the diverse
backgrounds, 
cultures, experiences and attitudes of the people on it. The
discussions 
here...whether I'm actively participating in them or not...broaden my
mind and 
my world every day. Not all of the topics are going to be interesting, 
entertaining or comfortable for everyone...but then neither is the
World's 
Greatest Film which brought us all here in the first place.

Best regards,
Sharon
********************************************************************************

"...how sad it is for other people that they cannot appreciate our
genius."

                                                   -Heavenly Creatures


Sharon A. Bowker
sbowker1@purdue.edu
Lafayette, Indiana, USA

   



--------------- MESSAGE heavenly-c.v001.n879.8 ---------------

From: "E. Jean Guerin" <orson@videotron.ca>
Subject: Re: Disturbed (was SP)
Date: Tue, 11 Aug 98 19:33:03 -0400
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII"

paula r. mauro wrote:

>The "don't ask don't tell" policy
>tends to only come up when pople's homosexuality is being discussed,
hardly
>ever when straight folks are talking about actors or actresses of the
>opposite sex that they think are attractive, spouses, so on and so
forth.

Yes but if a male participant on this list would have openly flirted 
online with a girl in the same manner that some girls have , he
would've 
been booted out. 

I believe "Don't ask! Don't tell!" applies only to GLB lifestyles. It 
also applies to straights too.

I once got very mad at someone who called me "homophobic" because I 
interrupted a stream of "revelations". I told him calmly that the same 
would have happened if a straight person was overstepping as well. Like 
some overly macho guy who keeps making sexual jokes at innapropriate 
times.

There is no way anyone can even be a regular on this list and be 
homophobic.

But "open mind" doesn't mean indiscreet.

(:^)]



--------------- MESSAGE heavenly-c.v001.n879.9 ---------------

From: IrishEMT12@aol.com
Subject: Re: Disturbed (was SP)
Date: Tue, 11 Aug 1998 20:00:51 EDT
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

Are you referring to just yourself, or a hidden crowd behind you that
I'm unable to see? For someone to be able to ONLY express themselves on
a mailing list is pretty sad, it just stresses the quote I addressed in
the beginning: "A mailing list is not to be confused with a life" which
is more than true.

Obviously I do not speak for myself, I have qualms about discussing my
sexual
preference, and i will not hesitate to discuss it in relationto this
film or
in an inquisitive manner on this list, just because in your opinion it
is
wrong.  

Your statement above leads me to believe that you are a highly niave
person,
to think that it is easy to discuss certian things without the security
of
anonomity is a sign of that.

And no this is not a self help list, no one ever said I am gay or I am
strait,
will you creatures please talk to me about what i should do.  All we
did was
get to know each other better, and no one was forced to answer it, so
those
who did obviously did so by free will and the desire to let others on
this
list know more about them.

If it bothers you so much HIT THE DELETE BUTTON, that is my plan for the
remainder of all of your posts.

Jennifer EMT-B

And yes maybe you should get that memory of yours checked out.


--------------- MESSAGE heavenly-c.v001.n879.10 ---------------

From: IrishEMT12@aol.com
Subject: Re: Disturbed (was SP)
Date: Tue, 11 Aug 1998 20:32:24 EDT
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

In a message dated 98-08-11 12:25:45 EDT, you write:

<< I want to point out that Laurin did not complain when it was the
question 
 of preference. She just pointed out her discomfort when fantasies
became 
 the topic.
 
 If I were to spell out my fantasies, it'd make a lot of people run, 
 screaming. 
 
 This is not a censorship issue, folks. It's about using common sense.
  >>


That is my point though Jean, NO one ever devuldged their fantasies,
gay or
strait.  Cristy responded late to the posts where popel only devuldged
their
preference, willingly.  She made the sarcastic and in fun joke of wow I
leave
and everyones is talking about sexual fantasies, which no one ever did.
 So
because she answers later to those posts, Laurin decides to say what a
shame
it is that the real topics are so scarece that the lesbian fantisies
are back.
Then another person replied WOW, lesbian fantsies, where!! also in
jest.   In
no way were actual fantsies ever discussed, and the person who brought
up the
topic again was responding late because of her absence, so why is that
wrong
??????

No one made you read it, no one made you reply to it, and no one says
you
cannot have your own opinion.  Just realize, you may, unintentionally
offend
or hurt or confuse others.  that is all.  Post on, please, I change my
further
statement where I said I would no longer read Laurin's posts, I will
read them
all, for the insight and othersidedness I tend to redeem from them.  My
opinion of course.

Jennifer


--------------- END heavenly-c.v001.n879 ---------------

-------------- BEGIN heavenly-c.v001.n880 --------------

    001 - Laurin McNiff <englishpat - Re: Disturbed (was SP)
    002 - Lela Kaunitz <lelak@heale - No Subject
    003 - Corrie Vierregger <suebri - Re: Disturbed (was SP)
    004 - IrishEMT12@aol.com        - HEADLINE "Bridehead's flame fuels
war !!!" pg 1
    005 - Aileen Dayao <n9343700@ga - [Fwd: [kwhotline_list] Titanic On
tour...] (fwd)
    006 - Christy Price <christy@ty - AIEE!
    007 - adam abrams <adamabr@heli - EVER AFTER - now there's a topic
    008 - Laurin McNiff <englishpat - "Make the bad man stop!"
    009 - nbk94@xs4all.nl (Jeroen)  - girls rule!
    010 - Corrie Vierregger <suebri - Re: EVER AFTER - now there's a
topic

--------------- MESSAGE heavenly-c.v001.n880.1 ---------------

From: Laurin McNiff <englishpatient@home.com>
Subject: Re: Disturbed (was SP)
Date: Tue, 11 Aug 1998 21:24:30 -0700
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
References: <199808120005.RAA19348@lists1.best.com>

I have a real problem with personal attacks. This is clearly one of the
most immature I have read. The issue has been settled for the most part,
peace was in clear view until you decided to send a nasty gram with my
name on it to the whole list. You're entire letter "leads me to believe"
that you don't know how to let things go. I'll tell you one last time,
before I send this letter out:

My statement was AN OPINION, something the entire list practices well,
and I do NOT expect my opinions to be some sort of exception to the
rule. This whole thing has become insanely overgrown, and I wish the
personal attacks and flames would STOP being sent to the whole list-if
you have something to say to me, regardless, send it to ME, not the
whole list..I'm getting tired of it, and this goes for anyone else that
has a "problem" with me.

Regards,
Laurin


--------------- MESSAGE heavenly-c.v001.n880.2 ---------------

From: Lela Kaunitz <lelak@healey.com.au>
Subject: No Subject
Date: Wed, 12 Aug 1998 13:54:17 +1000
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
In-Reply-To: <199808120035.RAA13816@lists1.best.com>


Jean Guerin wrote:

>I think there was some overreaction to Laurin's comment. 
>
>Besides, dissing people on the net isn't fun. 
>
>I'm sure that one wants to be known as a FLAMING homosexual here.

*laughing*

Bless you, Jean, for your perspective.



Lela



--------------- MESSAGE heavenly-c.v001.n880.3 ---------------

From: Corrie Vierregger <suebridehead@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: Disturbed (was SP)
Date: Tue, 11 Aug 1998 18:03:13 -0700 (PDT)
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii


---IrishEMT12@aol.com wrote:
>
> Are you referring to just yourself, or a hidden crowd behind you that
> I'm unable to see? For someone to be able to ONLY express themselves
on
> a mailing list is pretty sad, it just stresses the quote I addressed
in
> the beginning: "A mailing list is not to be confused with a life"
which
> is more than true.
> 
> Obviously I do not speak for myself, I have qualms about discussing
my sexual
> preference, and i will not hesitate to discuss it in relationto this
film or
> in an inquisitive manner on this list, just because in your opinion
it is
> wrong.  
> 
> Your statement above leads me to believe that you are a highly niave
person,
> to think that it is easy to discuss certian things without the
security of
> anonomity is a sign of that.
> 
> And no this is not a self help list, no one ever said I am gay or I
am strait,
> will you creatures please talk to me about what i should do.  All we
did was
> get to know each other better, and no one was forced to answer it,
so those
> who did obviously did so by free will and the desire to let others
on this
> list know more about them.
> 
> If it bothers you so much HIT THE DELETE BUTTON, that is my plan for
the
> remainder of all of your posts.
> 
> Jennifer EMT-B
> 
> And yes maybe you should get that memory of yours checked out.
> 
---IrishEMT12@aol.com wrote:
>
> Are you referring to just yourself, or a hidden crowd behind you that
> I'm unable to see? For someone to be able to ONLY express themselves
on
> a mailing list is pretty sad, it just stresses the quote I addressed
in
> the beginning: "A mailing list is not to be confused with a life"
which
> is more than true.
> 
> Obviously I do not speak for myself, I have qualms about discussing
my sexual
> preference, and i will not hesitate to discuss it in relationto this
film or
> in an inquisitive manner on this list, just because in your opinion
it is
> wrong.  
> 
> Your statement above leads me to believe that you are a highly niave
person,
> to think that it is easy to discuss certian things without the
security of
> anonomity is a sign of that.
> 
> And no this is not a self help list, no one ever said I am gay or I
am strait,
> will you creatures please talk to me about what i should do.  All we
did was
> get to know each other better, and no one was forced to answer it,
so those
> who did obviously did so by free will and the desire to let others
on this
> list know more about them.
> 
> If it bothers you so much HIT THE DELETE BUTTON, that is my plan for
the
> remainder of all of your posts.
> 
> Jennifer EMT-B
> 
> And yes maybe you should get that memory of yours checked out.
> 

Okay.

Have to ever stopped to think that other people have opinions too? Is
it a crime to say you're uncomfortable with something? As I said
before, this is a HEAVENLY  CREATURES list. For the movie. Not the gay
pride list.

I'm sure Laurin intended to join this list because she liked the
movie. Didn't we all? Or am I wrong? Who wouldn't get upset if they
started seeing their inbox filled up with all the letters ranting and
raving about homosexuality. Or any other topic for that matter.

I don't even think the point is homosexuality. The point is respect.
Respect for others and their opinions. These flames are immature and
need to be ended. I am glad a few people on this list are willing to
stop.

I mean, what are you getting at? Is Laurin a bad person because she's
not a lesbian?  If that's the case that makes a lot of us bad people
as well. Shame on her for speaking her mind!

And yes, I do think you're unable to see. 
"For someone to be able to ONLY express themselves on a mailing list
is pretty sad" 
Where the hell do you get off? You don't know Laurin! How can to make
such a strong judgement on  one post? As I recall you're the one
expressing yourself. In an unessecary way.  All over the fucking
mailing list. The "SAD" thing is that you want everyone to bow down to
you like you know all and you're God.

Well I hate to break it to ya babe but it's not gonna happen. You need
to wake up and realize you're not the only one in this world who has
an opinion.

Thats all i have to say. Like it or lump it. I don't give a damn.



==
-corrie

"Once you get to know sad...she's got some sweet little dresses, you
know?" 
_________________________________________________________
DO YOU YAHOO!?
Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com



--------------- MESSAGE heavenly-c.v001.n880.4 ---------------

From: IrishEMT12@aol.com
Subject: HEADLINE "Bridehead's flame fuels war !!!" pg 1
Date: Wed, 12 Aug 1998 01:34:39 EDT
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

Ok ok, here we go woth the oh so mature language fcator,  Is that
because of
where you were raised or because intelligent speaking illudes you ?? 
well, i
am not God, and I never claimned to be God, so I do not know.  

I never said a person could not express their opinion, but if I do not
like
it, or I am offended by it, i am not wrong to say that.  No i do not
know
Laurin, and it seems from the passion (we will call it that for now) in
your
letters that you do, I may presume.  I only know of Laurin by the way
she has
presented herself to this list, and it seems to me that she made the
comment
in an effort to state her opinion without realizing those she would
offend.
It is niave and blind to think that there is nothing relative in the
film
Heavenly Creatures to sexuality.  we never made this a gay pride list,
all of
the comments were made in complete relation to HC.  I am sorry that
something
bothers you that much that you must search for any reason to belittle
it.  The
fact is laurin was concerned with the possiblity of the list discussing
something that was never even possibly going to be discussed. It would
be like
if i posted something that just said the word titanic as a reference,
not as a
topic, and all of a sudden someone was saying , oh no, not more Titanic
posts,
when that is not what happened at all.  

I do not want laurin not to state her opinion, but she stated in a
manner as
though some sort of rule should be implemeted to keep people from
posting
something just because of on reason.  I could understand if people were
posting things that had absolutley nothing to do woth HC, but
unfortunatley
sexuality plays a pretty big part, and it is something a lot of people
on this
list relate to.  just because there are a few that do not does not mean
it
should be something that is not ever discussed.

I could try and quench that flaming, loquacious little tounge you have,
I
could reply in the same vulgar manner in which you have, but I do not
feel
that I can stoop that far down.  I think you should watch the way you
speak to
people, it is not a very nice thing and only makes their opionion of you
diminish. But you already said you donot care about that, but something
makes
me think different.  It must be that omnicient God complex I just found
out i
had.  i guess I'll have to go get that looked at.  maybe you should
check on
that attitude.

Jennifer



--------------- MESSAGE heavenly-c.v001.n880.5 ---------------

From: Aileen Dayao <n9343700@garbo.nepean.uws.edu.au>
Subject: [Fwd: [kwhotline_list] Titanic On tour...] (fwd)
Date: Wed, 12 Aug 1998 15:37:15 +1000 (EST)
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: MULTIPART/MIXED; BOUNDARY="0-1163806461-902900235=:22881"

  This message is in MIME format.  The first part should be readable
text,
  while the remaining parts are likely unreadable without MIME-aware
tools.
  Send mail to mime@docserver.cac.washington.edu for more info.

--0-1163806461-902900235=:22881
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; CHARSET=us-ascii
Content-ID: <Pine.OSF.3.96.980812153657.22881F@oberon>



Carter's Dreams __o    take care- justmeeh.. Aileen.
   Keeper     _`\<,_ mailto:n9343700@scholar.nepean.uws.edu.au
 .  .  .  .  (*)/ (*) 
http://www.cit.nepean.uws.edu.au/~adayao/index.html

---------- Forwarded message ----------
Date: Wed, 12 Aug 1998 15:12:06 +1000
From: Ken Grady <keng@intercoast.com.au>
To: Aileen Dayao <n9343700@garbo.nepean.uws.edu.au>
Subject: [Fwd: [kwhotline_list] Titanic On tour...]



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From: <XWINSLETX@aol.com>

Hello.

I don't really post too much, but I just had to tonight.  I went to see
the
Titanic Movie on tour today in Toronto.  I felt the need to write about
it
because my friend that I went with continuously laughed at me while we
were in
there...

A brief history, I fell in love with that movie due to Kate's electrical
performance.  The love story moved me, when love stories never do that
to me.
The movie has become a passion of mine, as well as having long time
interest
in the actual ship and story itself...  

Anyhow, as soon as I walked in there, and I saw the trailer for the
movie
again, I started to cry.  Not controllable tears, just tears that
rolled down
my face.  As I proceded on with the props, I couldnt help but be in
awe...
Rose's boarding dress, the renault, which really had me going, and
especially
the sitting room.  I havent watched the movie in ages, maybe 2 or 3
months,
but being there reminded me of the work and passion that it took to
make that
movie...

I know this isnt really Kate related, but I just had to send this out to
people that have maybe been as touched by this film as I was.  

Melinda

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--0-1163806461-902900235=:22881--


--------------- MESSAGE heavenly-c.v001.n880.6 ---------------

From: Christy Price <christy@tyler.net>
Subject: AIEE!
Date: Wed, 12 Aug 1998 01:13:26 -0700
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

Why is it so hard to let this thing go?  How did this become a
full-fledged all out war?  
People who get together anywhere are gonna have disagreements, they
aren't always gonna see eye to
eye.  There will always being feelings that get hurt, someone will
always be stepping on someone else's
toes.  But you just have to rise above that.  The point seems to be
done into the ground. Someone has to
be big enough to stop it. No I'm not judging, okay, I'm just saying
aiee, how much longer can this thing go 
on?  It started with one misunderstanding (I feel really bad about my
part in it) and it quickly has escalated into
cursing, ridiculing grammer and outright meanness.  It's way outta
control.  It seems that way to me anyway.  
--Christy-little-ms-getalong-Price
a/k/a Christy-little-ms-group-hug-Price
P.S. I would LOVE to hear what you guys thought about Mel in Ever
After!  Also what about her other film Foreign
Correspondents, when is that coming out.  And Kate, what's her next
film? I have been out of commission so don't know.




--------------- MESSAGE heavenly-c.v001.n880.7 ---------------

From: adam abrams <adamabr@helix.net>
Subject: EVER AFTER - now there's a topic
Date: Tue, 11 Aug 1998 23:41:11 -0700 (PDT)
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
In-Reply-To: <199808111726.KAA15311@lists1.best.com>

Well, this latest kerfuffle about sexual-preference-as-a-list-topic has
taught me one thing: flames sure bog down a list fast! "Meta-debates"
(i.e.
let's talk about what we should talk about) make for a pretty dull read.
Please, _please_ email each other if you feel compelled to hash this
out.
And to encourage this I'm not even going to put in my .02 on the topic
though I'd dearly love to!  8^)

I know: let's talk about Mel's new movie instead!!!!!!

Hands up, everyone who's seen it. I just got back from it tonight. I
wouldn't probably otherwise have gone but for the Mel factor, and I must
say I'm glad I did. It was delightful!

I braved a theatre filled mostly with teenage girls... I bet I was the
only
one there going because it was a "Melanie Lynskey film". Drew who? 8^)

Even though Mel was largely in the background, it was still great to
see in
an actual _role_ (unlike "The Frighteners"). Yes, she's certainly grown
up
since HC, but it was a treat seeing how many of her mannerisms and such
are
very much the same. I thought she dominated every scene she was in!
Though
I admit I may be slightly biased. I was riveted on her at all times.
Why, I
think Mel's and Drew's roles should've been switched!

Ever After is clever, funny, and even turns into a bit of a tearjerker
in
spots, which is quite an achievement for a movie that by nature has to
have
a lot of predictable cliche's in it. At least they twist the cliche's
around, mostly by having Cinderella be one of those neo-heroines who
swashbuckles her way through the film, rarely needs rescuing, and has a
politically correct attitude about 400 years ahead of its time. But that
sure makes for a better role model than the traditional version!

Finally, I noticed some eerie similarities between Mel's roles as
Pauline
and as Jacqeline from Ever After. Hmmm.... instead of spilling the
beans,
I'll ask for guesses. There were three that struck me. (But be warned, I
was reaching a bit for probably two of them!)

Adam

PS, Sharon, you really summed up how I feel about the whole sexual
preference thing. *DOH*! I said I wouldn't say anything... well, it just
kinda slipped out...



==========================================================================
  The HEAVENLY CREATURES website has MOVED!
                 www.geocities.com/Hollywood/Studio/2194/

       Visit THE ADAM ZONE          www.helix.net/~adamabr/adamzone/
==========================================================================




--------------- MESSAGE heavenly-c.v001.n880.8 ---------------

From: Laurin McNiff <englishpatient@home.com>
Subject: "Make the bad man stop!"
Date: Wed, 12 Aug 1998 03:40:20 -0700
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

I think it's about time everyone gave Christy that group hug she so
richly deserves:) And, this thing has gone on long enough, at least with
me. So, let's put out the fire and go about our business on the list.

Regards,
Laurin


--------------- MESSAGE heavenly-c.v001.n880.9 ---------------

From: nbk94@xs4all.nl (Jeroen)
Subject: girls rule!
Date: Wed, 12 Aug 1998 07:59:30 GMT
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit

Yesterday i finally received my ALL OVER ME laserdisc.  I watched it
last night, and i love it!

It reminds me a lot of another one of my favorite films KIDS, but
without the moralizing.  The best thing about AOM is of course alison
folland, she's so natural and real i can't imagine anyone else playing
that part.  Tara subkoff (who had a small part in the brilliant
FREEWAY btw) is good too, it's just that it's hard for me to see past
her not so likeable character.  Have to watch the film a few more
times for that.

Jen, i agree, the 'pissing in the river' scene is the best.  But i
also love the scene where the 2 girls lie down in the street, when the
camera makes that weird turn.  And the 360 shots of claude's room are
very special too.

Anyway it's a must-see for HC fans.

And all you laser-philes, buy this disc wether you like the film or
not.  The transfer is great, with very vivid colors in the bright
outdoor scenes and excellent contrast with deep blacks in the indoor
and night scenes.  Unfortunately the sound isn't ac3, but the
pro-logic mix still sounds pretty good.

And oh yeah great soundtrack!

--
Jeroen - The Netherlands - www.xs4all.nl/~nbk94 - icq #15894278
All the best people have bad chests and bone diseases.
It's all frightfully romantic! - Heavenly Creatures


--------------- MESSAGE heavenly-c.v001.n880.10 ---------------

From: Corrie Vierregger <suebridehead@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: EVER AFTER - now there's a topic
Date: Wed, 12 Aug 1998 01:11:15 -0700 (PDT)
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii

Yay yay yay! I thought I'd reply to this before my flame. I like this
stuff better. :)

Mel's new movie...I personally loved it. Before I went and saw it I
had a hard time imagining how Mel could play one of the evil
stepsisters. God this movie was SO different from the Disney one! But
in a good way.
I still love the Disney version though. 

I don't wanna ruin the whole movie for the ones who haven't seen
it...but, Mel was excellent. I think she did the best job out of all
the actors. For those who've seen it...Is it just me or was the rest
of the casting really bad?

I'm hardly a Drew fan...but she did pretty well. I still don't think
she'd make the best Cinderella though. But "Jaqueline" was perfect for
Mel. Those face expressions of her's are just too cute.

Well I just wanted to make a few small comments on the new movie. If
they sound all screwed up please excuse me I'm a bit tired but Mr.
Insomnia is screaming no. Well, byebye everyone. Let's not all eat
each other alive now ;)
==
-corrie

"Once you get to know sad...she's got some sweet little dresses, you
know?" 
_________________________________________________________
DO YOU YAHOO!?
Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com



--------------- END heavenly-c.v001.n880 ---------------

-------------- BEGIN heavenly-c.v001.n881 --------------

    001 - "BRANDI SMITH"<brsmith@na - Re:EVER AFTER - now there's a
topic
    002 - "E. Jean Guerin" <orson@v - Re:EVER AFTER - now there's a
topic
    003 - "paula r. mauro" <paula@t - more must-sees for HC fans
    004 - IrishEMT12@aol.com        - Re: EVER AFTER - now there's a
topic
    005 - IrishEMT12@aol.com        - Re: EVER AFTER - now there's a
topic
    006 - Kim Novak <Netdance@world - Re: girls rule!
    007 - Edward Babcock <topgun@ma - Re: EVER AFTER - now there's a
topic
    008 - StarScully@aol.com        - Re: EVER AFTER - now there's a
topic
    009 - lyric <dalyric@writeme.co - Re: EVER AFTER - now there's a
topic
    010 - LaSkA4u@aol.com           - Re: EVER AFTER - now there's a
topic

--------------- MESSAGE heavenly-c.v001.n881.1 ---------------

From: "BRANDI SMITH"<brsmith@nass.usda.gov>
Subject: Re:EVER AFTER - now there's a topic
Date: Wed, 12 Aug 98 07:54:41 -0500
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit


Someone wrote (silly me-I deleted the name):

Even though Mel was largely in the background, it was still great to
see in
an actual _role_ (unlike "The Frighteners"). 

-------
I have the movie "The Frighteners." Where is she at in the film. I have
to go
look for her now!

-Brandi^^




--------------- MESSAGE heavenly-c.v001.n881.2 ---------------

From: "E. Jean Guerin" <orson@videotron.ca>
Subject: Re:EVER AFTER - now there's a topic
Date: Wed, 12 Aug 98 11:10:42 -0400
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII"

BRANDI SMITH wrote:

>I have the movie "The Frighteners." Where is she at in the film. I
have to go
>look for her now!

She's the female deputy. No lines. It was a wink to us HC fans. The 
character of Dr. Lynskey is also named after her.

(:^)]



--------------- MESSAGE heavenly-c.v001.n881.3 ---------------

From: "paula r. mauro" <paula@tank.razorfish.com>
Subject: more must-sees for HC fans
Date: Wed, 12 Aug 1998 11:24:12 -0400
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/enriched; charset="us-ascii"

I'm surprised that no one mentioned having seen "The Beauty Queen of
Leenane."  Some of the issues it addresses I think would be appealing
to some HC fans.  It's playing in NYC right now-  has anybody had a
chance to see it?




<paraindent><param>right,right,right,left,left,left</param>"27-year-old
Irish wonderboy Martin McDonagh - whose "The Cripple of Inishmaan"
plays the Public this spring - has written a disturbing and very
memorable play about the bonds between a cruel cow of a mum and
Maureen, her spinster daughter who's trying to land a man. Within hours
of its hotly anticipated off-Broadway opening, "Beauty Queen" had
already been snapped up by Broadway producers for an extended run and
for good reason.  Troubling and sinister, this "Glass
Menagerie"-cum-"Virginia Woolf" is both an edge-of-your-seat thriller
and a gripping family drama, without a touch of identity crisis. And
thanks to ingenuous performances from its four-member cast (especially
Anna Manahan and Marie Mullen, as mother and daughter) and to
McDonagh's skill as a writer, the characters become increasingly
intriguing and complex until the curtain falls. McDonagh  has proved
himself one of his generation's most capable writers. -Jason Cochran"

http://newyork.sidewalk.com/


</paraindent>




--------------- MESSAGE heavenly-c.v001.n881.4 ---------------

From: IrishEMT12@aol.com
Subject: Re: EVER AFTER - now there's a topic
Date: Wed, 12 Aug 1998 12:33:57 EDT
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

I have yet to see the film, but I am planning on it soon, finally get
to see
Mel for a while.  Is her accent in the film, she had a very obvious kiwi
accent, and I am not sure where this film takes place, I heard France,
but
hearing Drew Barrymores's accent in the ads I am not sure what origin
they are
trying to depict, if anyone has seen the film and knows, let me know.

Jennifer


--------------- MESSAGE heavenly-c.v001.n881.5 ---------------

From: IrishEMT12@aol.com
Subject: Re: EVER AFTER - now there's a topic
Date: Wed, 12 Aug 1998 12:47:42 EDT
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

In a message dated 98-08-12 11:31:21 EDT, you write:

<< She's the female deputy. No lines. It was a wink to us HC fans. The 
 character of Dr. Lynskey is also named after her. >>


You will find her in the scene where Michale J. Fox' s charater is
taken for
questioning by the sheriff.  She is seated at a desk (off camera) and
then she
is told by the sheriff to take him to a cell, that is where we see her.
 It is
cool, even though no lines.  worth seeing the film, which i thought 
was very
good.  It is into the film some.  But the name of the Doc sure does
catch any
HC or Mel fan right away.

Jennifer


Jennifer


--------------- MESSAGE heavenly-c.v001.n881.6 ---------------

From: Kim Novak <Netdance@worldnet.att.net>
Subject: Re: girls rule!
Date: Wed, 12 Aug 1998 13:02:07 -0700
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
References: <199808120811.BAA18073@lists1.best.com>

Jeroen wrote:

> Yesterday i finally received my ALL OVER ME laserdisc.  I watched it
> last night, and i love it!
> 
> It reminds me a lot of another one of my favorite films KIDS, but
> without the moralizing.  The best thing about AOM is of course alison
> folland, she's so natural and real i can't imagine anyone else playing
> that part. 

Yay! Yes, yes, i love this movie immensely. I did see a few
similiarities to KIDS...but that one bothered me. it seemed rather
pointless, but maybe i'm not seeing something. I love Alison. I've loved
that girl since To Die For (excellent, excellent movie by the way...seen
it a million times)

>Tara subkoff (who had a small part in the brilliant
> FREEWAY btw) is good too, it's just that it's hard for me to see past
> her not so likeable character.  Have to watch the film a few more
> times for that.

I love how they got so many fabulous band singers worked into the mix,
Leisha Hailey of the Murmurs, Pat Briggs of Psychotica...and Leisha
especially. she was lovely. 
> 
> Jen, i agree, the 'pissing in the river' scene is the best.  But i
> also love the scene where the 2 girls lie down in the street, when the
> camera makes that weird turn.  And the 360 shots of claude's room are
> very special too.
> 
I also love the scene where Claude is cleaning her room of all of
Ellen's things. i must have seen that movie 10 times in the first week.
> 
> And all you laser-philes, buy this disc wether you like the film or
> not.  The transfer is great, with very vivid colors in the bright
> outdoor scenes and excellent contrast with deep blacks in the indoor
> and night scenes.  Unfortunately the sound isn't ac3, but the
> pro-logic mix still sounds pretty good.
> 
i'm lost. i've never even SEEN a laser disc player...so little me is
still in the stone age. HA!

alrighty then, i suppose i should shove in my absent two cents on this
little debate? huh? well...I have not been following it. I've kind of
dropped back from posting (or reading for that matter..life is
consuming...and i saw Thrill Kill Kult on Sunday. i thought i'd bring
that nice irrelevant point up because i am HAPPY) lately. Still, i've
caught bits and peices. I just thought you all should know that even
though I am, in fact, a lesbian, i have never posted any peice of
material to this list reserved exclusively for other lesbians. I don't
think i've even posted anything concerning the whole subject until that
sexual orientation question came up a while ago. so, basically, i think
that people have their shorts in a knot over nothing...everyone is not
starting a homosexual mafia. hell, some of us don't even talk about it
unless nessecary (i know i spelled that wrong). just my opinion.
actually, i have found nothing bothersome on this list except the "where
do you live?" and "I LOVE KATE WINSLET!!!!" type of messages.

there. i feel so debate-like.

-jen


--------------- MESSAGE heavenly-c.v001.n881.7 ---------------

From: Edward Babcock <topgun@mail.ocis.net>
Subject: Re: EVER AFTER - now there's a topic
Date: Wed, 12 Aug 1998 11:20:46 -0700
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
In-Reply-To: <199808121635.JAA13169@lists1.best.com>

I just saw Ever After last night for the 3rd time and it was better than
ever!!! God I thought Titanic would reign as my favourite movie of this
year but Ever After might make me change my mind. I guess its because I
love that time period...medieval times and such. I thought this story
was
much better than the so called "Disney fable" because it was much more
believable and relatable. Drew Barrymore was fab as Danielle De Barburac
and nobody else could of played that role. I've liked her since ET but
this
has got to be her defining film. Angelica Huston was superb as the
wicked
step-mother, she is a wonderful actress plus I've always liked her from
Adams Family. Dougray Scott was charming and likeable as Prince Henry
though at times I found him rude and arrogant. Megan Dodd ( I think
that's
her name) was very good at getting under your skin as the evil step
sister
Marguerite...I hated her from the very first minute. And of course
there's
our Melanie..god she was fab! She didn't have her usually accent rather
a
bit of a Kerri Strug voice but cute all the same. I was happy that she
was
the good step sister because she fits the role more than the evil one.
Her
part might have been small but it was comendable and note-worthy.
Overall I
would give this movie two thumbs up and ***** out of 5.

courtney

oh and yes it is set in 14th century France. 




>I have yet to see the film, but I am planning on it soon, finally get
to see
>Mel for a while.  Is her accent in the film, she had a very obvious
kiwi
>accent, and I am not sure where this film takes place, I heard France,
but
>hearing Drew Barrymores's accent in the ads I am not sure what origin
they
are
>trying to depict, if anyone has seen the film and knows, let me know.
>
>Jennifer
>
>



--------------- MESSAGE heavenly-c.v001.n881.8 ---------------

From: StarScully@aol.com
Subject: Re: EVER AFTER - now there's a topic
Date: Wed, 12 Aug 1998 16:03:36 EDT
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

I saw Ever After by myself yesterday.  I got goosebumps as soon as I
saw Mel's
face .  Oh yeah, quick question...about the accents.  I know ML has a
thick
kiwi accent and I was wondering if that's why she chose to speak as
Jaqueline
(sp?) with such a soft tone.  She seemed to speak in a whisper-like tone
through-out the whole movie.  The only other "famous" person I know of
with a
kiwi accent is Lucy Lawless. 

::::re-reading her post and wondering if it even made any sense:::
:::shrugs shoulders::::

*janel* 


--------------- MESSAGE heavenly-c.v001.n881.9 ---------------

From: lyric <dalyric@writeme.com>
Subject: Re: EVER AFTER - now there's a topic
Date: Wed, 12 Aug 1998 20:46:20 +0200
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
References: <199808121823.LAA10077@lists1.best.com>

Woehaaa!!! You're all making me so jealous talking about Ever After! (-:
Don't get me wrong: It's good to hear that so far everyone who saw it
LOVED Ever After, and I love to read as much about it as possible on
this list, so please keep posting about it! But I do want to see this
masterpiece myself!! Isn't there something like an online cinema???
hehee

Marloes

-- 
I am going your way,
so let us go hand in hand
- William Morris



--------------- MESSAGE heavenly-c.v001.n881.10 ---------------

From: LaSkA4u@aol.com
Subject: Re: EVER AFTER - now there's a topic
Date: Thu, 13 Aug 1998 00:55:14 EDT
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

In a message dated 98-08-12 16:57:54 EDT, you write:

<< The only other "famous" person I know of with a
 kiwi accent is Lucy Lawless.  >>

lucy lawless has a kiwi accent??


--------------- END heavenly-c.v001.n881 ---------------

-------------- BEGIN heavenly-c.v001.n882 --------------

    001 - Salena <branson@xtra.co.n - unsubscribe
    002 - Salena <branson@xtra.co.n - Re: Digest heavenly-c.v001.n881
    003 - PURPLEAVA@aol.com         - Re: "Make the bad man stop!"
    004 - PURPLEAVA@aol.com         - Re: Orientation, etc.
    005 - Christy Price <christy@ty - RE: "Make the bad man stop!"
    006 - lyric <dalyric@writeme.co - Kiwi
    007 - lyric <dalyric@writeme.co - Group Hug
    008 - nbk94@xs4all.nl (Jeroen)  - Re: Group Hug
    009 - nbk94@xs4all.nl (Jeroen)  - Re: girls rule!
    010 - lyric <dalyric@writeme.co - Re: unsubscribe

--------------- MESSAGE heavenly-c.v001.n882.1 ---------------

From: Salena <branson@xtra.co.nz>
Subject: unsubscribe
Date: Thu, 13 Aug 1998 17:43:18 +1200
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
References: <199808130457.VAA07807@lists1.best.com>

can somebody PLEASE tell me how to unsubcribe from this list!!!!!


--------------- MESSAGE heavenly-c.v001.n882.2 ---------------

From: Salena <branson@xtra.co.nz>
Subject: Re: Digest heavenly-c.v001.n881
Date: Thu, 13 Aug 1998 17:50:09 +1200
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
References: <199808130457.VAA07807@lists1.best.com>

hey, I've got a Kiwi accent. Every heard of Rachel Hunter or Sam Neil
(Jurassic Park, Merlin)????????? They are famous Kiwis who retain their
accent. Just thought I'd share that piece of irrelevant information as a
farewell message.

Salena (The Kiwi)


--------------- MESSAGE heavenly-c.v001.n882.3 ---------------

From: PURPLEAVA@aol.com
Subject: Re: "Make the bad man stop!"
Date: Thu, 13 Aug 1998 02:22:47 EDT
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

In a message dated 98-08-12 03:08:24 EDT, you write:

<< I think it's about time everyone gave Christy that group hug she so
 richly deserves:) And, this thing has gone on long enough, at least
with
 me. So, let's put out the fire and go about our business on the list.
 
 Regards,
 Laurin
  >>

I second that!  I think I'll join you in that group hug.

Ava :)


--------------- MESSAGE heavenly-c.v001.n882.4 ---------------

From: PURPLEAVA@aol.com
Subject: Re: Orientation, etc.
Date: Thu, 13 Aug 1998 02:40:57 EDT
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

I just have to say thank you, thank you, thank you to Sharon for her
clear and
eloquent explaination of the events that caused this debate (her view
of them,
at least).  I think in the course of arguing a lot of the facts got
misconstrued or the different sides were not able to make clear the
point they
were trying to get across to the other side.  I have to agree
especially with
Sharon's last paragraph.  One of the best things about meeting people
on the
internet (at least for me) is being able to meet so many different
types of
people with different backgrounds, experiences, opinions, etc.  And
even if we
don't agree with someone, we have to respect their right to think the
way they
do.  There are always going to be things in the world that we don't
like; we
just have to learn to tolerate them and move on.

Ava :)
(I've included Sharon's letter below, in case anyone missed it the first
time.) 

In a message dated 98-08-11 19:48:22 EDT, you write:

<< Hello Heavenly Friends,
 
 I was going to steer clear of this debate but then thought I might be
able to
 put a voice to some (not all!) of the "silent listers' that keep being 
 referenced in regards to the sexual orientation debate. My
recollection of
the 
 way the issue came up originally was that one lister...and a brave one
at 
 that...confessed that part of the reason she was so moved by HC was
because
so 
 many of Pauline and Juliet's adolescent experiences mirrored her
own...and
she 
 was a lesbian. This prompted a few other listers to "come
out"...either to
show 
 support for this individual or to share a common experience...which is
precisely 
 what this forum is about. I was not offended in anyway...nor did I
feel the 
 issue was off-topic.
 
 This exchange resulted in someone else wondering outloud about the
sexual 
 orientation of listers...since it obviously had some bearing on how a
person 
 relates to the film. The question was asked rather playfully as I
recall, and
I 
 felt no pressure to provide an answer and did not. Nor was I offended
when 
 others did choose to answer it. For some of them it was the first time
they
had 
 ever admitted to being gay...and I'm guessing it was probably a pretty
scary 
 thing to do. This must have seemed like a safe place to do it and I
was kind
of 
 proud of all of us for that.
 
 If there was anything that I felt was just the slightest bit
inappropriate 
 and/or annoying...it was when a few...not all...of the newly "out"
listers
began 
 posting messages that one would normally find in a singles chatroom.
Someone 
 kindly suggested that they send those messages to each other privately
and
they 
 stopped showing up on the list almost immediately. Sexual orientation
of 
 individual listers has not been a a big topic of discussion since...at
least
not 
 that I can recall. Until  a lister who had been away and was catching
up 
 responded to "the" question the other day. I don't remember anyone
sharing
any 
 lesbian fantasies at any time...unless you count some straight female
listers
 who admitted that they had occasionally "thought" about what it would
be like
to 
 be with another woman. (Quite frankly, I don't know how any woman who
has
ever 
 watched the "Night with the Saints" can say with complete honesty that
she 
 hasn't thought about it!)  But hey...that's just my opinion! And every
opinion 
 is valid!)
 
 One of the things I value most about this list is the diverse
backgrounds, 
 cultures, experiences and attitudes of the people on it. The
discussions 
 here...whether I'm actively participating in them or not...broaden my
mind
and 
 my world every day. Not all of the topics are going to be interesting, 
 entertaining or comfortable for everyone...but then neither is the
World's 
 Greatest Film which brought us all here in the first place.
 
 Best regards,
 Sharon

*****************************************************************************
***
  >>


--------------- MESSAGE heavenly-c.v001.n882.5 ---------------

From: Christy Price <christy@tyler.net>
Subject: RE: "Make the bad man stop!"
Date: Thu, 13 Aug 1998 01:53:07 -0700
MIME-Version: 1.0
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----------
From: 	PURPLEAVA@aol.com[SMTP:PURPLEAVA@aol.com]
Sent: 	Wednesday, August 12, 1998 11:22 PM
To: 	heavenly-c@lists.best.com
Subject: 	Re: "Make the bad man stop!"

In a message dated 98-08-12 03:08:24 EDT, you write:

<< I think it's about time everyone gave Christy that group hug she so
 richly deserves:) And, this thing has gone on long enough, at least
with
 me. So, let's put out the fire and go about our business on the list.
 
 Regards,
 Laurin
  >>

I second that!  I think I'll join you in that group hug.

Ava :)

HUUUUUUUGGGGGGG I'm getting that warm fuzzy feeling back
again!*S*--Christy

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--------------- MESSAGE heavenly-c.v001.n882.6 ---------------

From: lyric <dalyric@writeme.com>
Subject: Kiwi
Date: Thu, 13 Aug 1998 11:24:33 +0200
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
References: <199808130457.VAA07807@lists1.best.com>
<199808130553.WAA29843@lists1.best.com>

Salena wrote:

> Just thought I'd share that piece of irrelevant information as a
> farewell message.

Farewell? Why?? Are you leaving the list?

Marloes

-- 
Though I am different from you,
We were born involved in one another
 - Tau Ch'ien



--------------- MESSAGE heavenly-c.v001.n882.7 ---------------

From: lyric <dalyric@writeme.com>
Subject: Group Hug
Date: Thu, 13 Aug 1998 11:28:48 +0200
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
References: <199808130653.XAA25628@lists1.best.com>

Hi all

I'm joining the group hug...((((hugsforall)))) ((-:
But I must say that these kind of emails were exactly the ones that
weren't appreciated by some of us, or am I wrong?

Anyway...(((((anotherhug))))) hehee,

Marloes

-- 
Though I am different from you,
We were born involved in one another
 - Tau Ch'ien



--------------- MESSAGE heavenly-c.v001.n882.8 ---------------

From: nbk94@xs4all.nl (Jeroen)
Subject: Re: Group Hug
Date: Thu, 13 Aug 1998 17:17:15 GMT
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit
References: <199808130653.XAA25628@lists1.best.com>
<199808130933.CAA13635@lists1.best.com>
In-Reply-To: <199808130933.CAA13635@lists1.best.com>

On Thu, 13 Aug 1998 11:28:48 +0200, lyric <dalyric@writeme.com> wrote:

>I'm joining the group hug...((((hugsforall)))) ((-:
>But I must say that these kind of emails were exactly the ones that
>weren't appreciated by some of us, or am I wrong?
>
>Anyway...(((((anotherhug))))) hehee,

Oh dear, somebody spent too much time in alt.support.depression :(

--
Jeroen - The Netherlands - www.xs4all.nl/~nbk94 - icq #15894278
All the best people have bad chests and bone diseases.
It's all frightfully romantic! - Heavenly Creatures


--------------- MESSAGE heavenly-c.v001.n882.9 ---------------

From: nbk94@xs4all.nl (Jeroen)
Subject: Re: girls rule!
Date: Thu, 13 Aug 1998 17:17:15 GMT
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit
References: <199808120811.BAA18073@lists1.best.com>
<199808121807.LAA25497@lists1.best.com>
In-Reply-To: <199808121807.LAA25497@lists1.best.com>

On Wed, 12 Aug 1998 13:02:07 -0700, Kim Novak
<Netdance@worldnet.att.net> wrote:

>Jeroen wrote:
>
>> Yesterday i finally received my ALL OVER ME laserdisc.  I watched it
>> last night, and i love it!
>> 
>> It reminds me a lot of another one of my favorite films KIDS, but
>> without the moralizing.  The best thing about AOM is of course alison
>> folland, she's so natural and real i can't imagine anyone else
playing
>> that part. 
>
>Yay! Yes, yes, i love this movie immensely. I did see a few
>similiarities to KIDS...but that one bothered me. it seemed rather

You mean the aids morality part?  Yeah, that bothered me too about
KIDS.  But apart from that it's a masterpiece, the acting is
incredible.  All the things that make AOM such a great film are in
KIDS too:  the documentary style filming, the scenes that are just
there for atmospheric purposes, the natural dialogue, everything.
Both films give a new meaning to the term urban jungle.

I can see why some people would hate KIDS though.

>pointless, but maybe i'm not seeing something. I love Alison. I've
loved
>that girl since To Die For (excellent, excellent movie by the
way...seen
>it a million times)

She's so great, i hope we'll get to see a lot more of her in the
future.  Wasn't there somebody on the list a while ago who got a
letter from her?  I'd love to read it if it's not too personal.

And I will never listen to 'allison' from the pixies the same way.

>>Tara subkoff (who had a small part in the brilliant
>> FREEWAY btw) is good too, it's just that it's hard for me to see past
>> her not so likeable character.  Have to watch the film a few more
>> times for that.
>
>I love how they got so many fabulous band singers worked into the mix,
>Leisha Hailey of the Murmurs, Pat Briggs of Psychotica...and Leisha
>especially. she was lovely. 

She's a goddess.  Her smile is the greatest.

Would you believe i travelled more than 200 miles today to find a
murmurs album... with no success :(  And i couldn't find the bloody
soundtrack either.  And then i got the patti smith album that features
'pissing in a river' but they put the wrong cd in the case, one i
already have because it has 'rock n roll nigger' from NBK.  Oh well,
at least i found some babes in toyland and ani difranco stuff from the
soundtrack.

>I also love the scene where Claude is cleaning her room of all of
>Ellen's things. i must have seen that movie 10 times in the first week.

Tonight will be my 4th viewing in 2 days.  It's getting better and
better.  Did i say this film rocks?

>i'm lost. i've never even SEEN a laser disc player...so little me is
>still in the stone age. HA!

Actually ld players are pretty much stone age equipment.  But, i
received a message from www.flf.com that AOM won't be available on dvd
any time soon, so the ld had to do.  Oh well, at least it has the
trailer.

OK, gotta go now order the soundtrack and some murmurs albums from
cdnow.

--
Jeroen - The Netherlands - www.xs4all.nl/~nbk94 - icq #15894278
All the best people have bad chests and bone diseases.
It's all frightfully romantic! - Heavenly Creatures


--------------- MESSAGE heavenly-c.v001.n882.10 ---------------

From: lyric <dalyric@writeme.com>
Subject: Re: unsubscribe
Date: Thu, 13 Aug 1998 19:20:02 +0200
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
References: <199808130457.VAA07807@lists1.best.com>
<199808130547.WAA25023@lists1.best.com>

Salena wrote:
> 
> can somebody PLEASE tell me how to unsubcribe from this list!!!!!

I can, thanx to Frank. But why are you unsubcribing so soon? I love to
have you on the list...and if I recall correct I wasn't the only one.

Anyway: write an email to heavenly-c-request@lists.best.com
All you have to do is put unsubscribe in the lower case...

Marloes

-- 
Though I am different from you,
We were born involved in one another
 - Tau Ch'ien