hc9c

Date:

Mon, 1 Jun 1998 20:10:16 -0700 (PDT)

From:

heavenly-c-errors@lists.best.com Add to Address Book

Subject:

Digest heavenly-c.v001.n778

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-------------- BEGIN heavenly-c.v001.n778 --------------

001 - "E. Jean Guerin" <orson@v - Re: unsubscribers + E-mail labels

(a suggestion)

002 - Baboon4444@aol.com - Diello/Lobby Cards

003 - Laurin McNiff <englishpat - Re: Diello/Lobby Cards

004 - Laurin McNiff <englishpat - Tunes.Com

005 - Bettina.Hahn@t-online.de - German Poster

006 - Bettina.Hahn@t-online.de - Re: The scary bit!! ;-)

007 - nbk94@xs4all.nl (Jeroen) - Re: The scary bit!! ;-)

008 - KTYerves@aol.com - my comments...

009 - brsmith@nass.usda.gov - Titles and other HC stuff

--------------- MESSAGE heavenly-c.v001.n778.1 ---------------

From: "E. Jean Guerin" <orson@videotron.ca>

Subject: Re: unsubscribers + E-mail labels (a suggestion)

Date: Sun, 31 May 98 22:16:42 -0400

MIME-Version: 1.0

Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"

Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

Jos=E9 Antonio Abad Trillo wrote:

>It lets us see

>>that there are in fact an awful lot of people deciding to leave, which

>>is depressing enough,

Actually in some cases it is good news as some of those 'abandonning =

ship" (pardon my pun) are the very "Titeenies" many HC listers were =

so concerned about a few months back.

Then again, it may be something I said...

An older list I was part of sort of devised a system of prefixes =

which made sorting out the postings easier.

They would label subjects as:

Fluff:

Request:

Discussion:

Humour:

etc.

We could simply use the prefix KW: when it is a specific post about =

Kate's career and ML: when it's Mel, PJ: When it's Peter, It: if it =

relates to yours truly.

2=E7: when someone adds their two cents

P&H: when it relates to the Parker and Hulme case.

NZ: if it relates to New Zealand

Of course this IS the HC list so the HC: prefix is never required.

This is an informal, friendly suggestion. Not an imposed rule.

(No, I am not the list moderator, just another fan)

(:^)]

--------------- MESSAGE heavenly-c.v001.n778.2 ---------------

From: Baboon4444@aol.com

Subject: Diello/Lobby Cards

Date: Sun, 31 May 1998 22:45:14 EDT

MIME-Version: 1.0

Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII

Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

Hey everyone!

I'm on this other list, and someone said that they weren't sure who

created

Diello. And that made me realize- I don't either. I'm also wondering

whether

Diello was a creation of Jackson for the film, or did Juliet or Pauline

create

him?

Also, and this sounds really stupid, what are lobby cards?

Thanks!

Lauren

--------------- MESSAGE heavenly-c.v001.n778.3 ---------------

From: Laurin McNiff <englishpatient@home.com>

Subject: Re: Diello/Lobby Cards

Date: Sun, 31 May 1998 23:00:32 -0400

MIME-Version: 1.0

Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii

Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

References: <199806010246.TAA11553@lists1.best.com>

Dear Lauren,

Though I can't accurately answer the Diello question, and

I'm sure it will be answered soon:-) I can, answer your lobby card

question. Lobby cards are intended to be posted in theaters to spark

interest in a potential viewer. They are rather large and very

collectible in the world of cinema/poster collectors. Their sizes range

from 8 by 10 to 11 by 14 I believe, though my range might be a little

off. Hope this helps.

Regards,

Laurin

--------------- MESSAGE heavenly-c.v001.n778.4 ---------------

From: Laurin McNiff <englishpatient@home.com>

Subject: Tunes.Com

Date: Sun, 31 May 1998 23:18:58 -0400

MIME-Version: 1.0

Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii

Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

Dear KMF/Creatures,

I found a new site on the internet that is really great! It's

http://www.tunes.com and they have a great many sound clips to unusual

or otherwise hard to find soundtracks or cds. For "The Ballad of Little

Jo" (a personal fave of mine!) they have a 30 second sound clip of every

track on the cd! They do sell them as well, just certain ones they may

not have in stock, but, overall it's a really good site and well worth

the visit!

Regards,

Laurin

--------------- MESSAGE heavenly-c.v001.n778.5 ---------------

From: Bettina.Hahn@t-online.de (Bettina.Hahn)

Subject: German Poster

Date: Mon, 1 Jun 1998 11:27:18 +0200

MIME-Version: 1.0

Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="_P7X_6YIWESVPH_HS4U_E4XYVH6_"

--_P7X_6YIWESVPH_HS4U_E4XYVH6_

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I found this somewere while I was surfing. I hope you all can open

it...

*hugs*

Betty

--_P7X_6YIWESVPH_HS4U_E4XYVH6_

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--_P7X_6YIWESVPH_HS4U_E4XYVH6_--

--------------- MESSAGE heavenly-c.v001.n778.6 ---------------

From: Bettina.Hahn@t-online.de (Bettina.Hahn)

Subject: Re: The scary bit!! ;-)

Date: Mon, 1 Jun 1998 11:27:27 +0200

MIME-Version: 1.0

Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1

Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8BIT

References: <199805280852.BAA09091@lists1.best.com>

<199805301006.DAA13344@lists1.best.com>

> To me the saddest part of the film is the 'it was a condition of

their release that they never meet again' line.

That is so true. When I watched it for the first time, I was to

shocked to cry, but when I realized this line, it came over me...

> The thing is i don't find myself crying for honora at any point in

the film.

But when I watched it several times, I really felt sorry for her,

because she doesn´t mean to do anything bad (she wants only the "best"

for her daughter), and in the moment when Pauline hits her, she makes

such a horrible somehow surprised noise... throughout the whole murder

-and it must take pretty long to kill somebody in that way- she must

realize that it is her daughter who is doing it. Pauline just seemed

to get better, and it is really a mean trap...

My view on this is that p&j were her salvation, like they freed

> her from a miserable life. All the talk about birdhouses, and the

> close-up of the birdcage right before honora and the girls leave the

> house, i think jackson and walsh wanted to portray her basically as

an unhappy woman, imprisoned in her own home. Juliet saying 'your

mother is rather a miserable woman' confirms this theory.

That is really interesting, and somehow it´s true, but would you kill

me just because I´m unhappy? I think I would prefer to do it myself,

if I like :-) and I´m not sure Honora realized that she was

imprisoned. Expect her problems with her daughter she seems to be

happy!?

*hugs*

Betty

--------------- MESSAGE heavenly-c.v001.n778.7 ---------------

From: nbk94@xs4all.nl (Jeroen)

Subject: Re: The scary bit!! ;-)

Date: Mon, 01 Jun 1998 17:46:53 GMT

MIME-Version: 1.0

Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1

Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

References: <199805280852.BAA09091@lists1.best.com>

<199805301006.DAA13344@lists1.best.com>

<199806010938.CAA16875@lists1.best.com>

In-Reply-To: <199806010938.CAA16875@lists1.best.com>

On Mon, 1 Jun 1998 11:27:27 +0200, Bettina.Hahn@t-online.de

(Bettina.Hahn) wrote:

>But when I watched it several times, I really felt sorry for her,=20

Of course i felt sorry for her, it's just that the tragedy of p&j

touched me a lot more.

>because she doesn=B4t mean to do anything bad (she wants only the

"best"=

=20

>for her daughter), and in the moment when Pauline hits her, she

makes=20

>such a horrible somehow surprised noise... throughout the whole

murder=20

>-and it must take pretty long to kill somebody in that way- she must=20

>realize that it is her daughter who is doing it. Pauline just seemed=20

>to get better, and it is really a mean trap...=20

I don't think anyone can think clearly and rationalize after a blow on

the head with a brick, but i see your point.

> My view on this is that p&j were her salvation, like they freed

>> her from a miserable life. All the talk about birdhouses, and the

>> close-up of the birdcage right before honora and the girls leave the

>> house, i think jackson and walsh wanted to portray her basically

as=20

>an unhappy woman, imprisoned in her own home. Juliet saying 'your=20

>mother is rather a miserable woman' confirms this theory.

>That is really interesting, and somehow it=B4s true, but would you

kill=20

>me just because I=B4m unhappy?

Being a militant pacifist i wouldn't kill any living being, period. I

was just saying what i think the filmmakers wanted to show us. And i

think my theory holds up pretty well. More 'proof': heavenly

creatures =3D angels =3D messengers from god. I think it's very poetic,

p&j as angels, taking honora's life.

>I think I would prefer to do it myself,=20

Been there, done that.

>if I like :-) and I=B4m not sure Honora realized that she was=20

>imprisoned. Expect her problems with her daughter she seems to be=20

>happy!?

A few months ago i brought some NBK quotes into a similar discussion.

Here's another one: 'some people are already dead, they just need to

be put out of their missery'. That's how i see it.

OK, a certain female member from this list can start flooding my

mailbox again.

Jeroen - The Netherlands - http://www.xs4all.nl/~nbk94

All the best people have bad chests and bone diseases.

It's all frightfully romantic! - Heavenly Creatures

--------------- MESSAGE heavenly-c.v001.n778.8 ---------------

From: KTYerves@aol.com

Subject: my comments...

Date: Mon, 1 Jun 1998 14:05:50 EDT

MIME-Version: 1.0

Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII

Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

Hello!

I haven't gotten to my mail in the past few days so I'd like to reply to

people's comments before I forget them. Sorry this is long!!

Yes...I am selective when showing or talking about HC with my

friends/family.

I feel like it's my secret too! I talk about it often though even

though none

of my friends have seen it. It's so hard not to quote from it and talk

with

an English accent though after seeing it so often! ha ha! I watched

it with

my dad a few weeks ago and most of it with my sister. I was nervous

having

them watch it with the "lesbian" scenes and stuff but we have seen

"Bound"

together before so I didn't think HC was half as bad. I just don't like

talking about it much with my family because they either say I'm

obsessed with

it or that I just like it cause of the two girls and their

relationship. I am

bisexual and my family and friends know this. Their jokes about the

movie are

mostly in friendly humor but it still bothers me sometimes. My friends

haven't seen it and no nothing about it but I would really love to

watch it

with them and hear their opinions. They are not homophobic at all for

the

most part some are uncomfortable seeing it, etc. I asked my dad

afterwards

what he thought about it and he said it was a good movie but I really

want to

watch it with someone that I can talk about it with. It's such a good

discussion movie as we can all testify too. :)

Anyways... I wish I lived where they still showed it in theaters! I

would

love to see it on the big screen and the people on here than can are SO

lucky!

I also want to buy any HC posters, lobby cards, soundtrack on CD,

memorabilia,

etc. so any info anyone can give would be greatly appreciated! Where

can I

find this stuff? I'm trying to locate the uncut version of the film as

well

so I'll tell you all if I find anything and I hope you would do the

same for

me as well as everyone on the list.

I also heard that Anne Perry (aka Juliet) will be on the Discovery

Channel

Thursday June 4th. Can anyone confirm or deny this? I think the show

is on

kids murdering their parents and she is one of the interviewees. It's

starts

at 11:00 pm here in NY but I'm not sure about other places. I will

have my

VCR ready though just in case. :)

Okay...I think I said everything that I wanted to say. Sorry this is so

long!

I just had so many posts to reply to and talk about. I get it in the

digest

form also.

Talk to all of you heavenly creatures later!

Kate :)

PS: TO JOSE ANTONIO... I think you were the one who said you had the

kissing

scene as your wallpaper on your computer. Could you send me the

picture or

any others that you use for wallpaper? I think that would be a great

way to

start up a conversation about HC! Please send the pic or any others

you want

to me at KTYerves@aol.com. Anyone else is welcome to send me pics

and/or wavs

too. =) I would appreciate it SO much!!!

--------------- MESSAGE heavenly-c.v001.n778.9 ---------------

From: brsmith@nass.usda.gov

Subject: Titles and other HC stuff

Date: Mon, 01 Jun 98 13:27:53 -0500

MIME-Version: 1.0

Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1

Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

Jeroen wrote:

Being a militant pacifist i wouldn't kill any living being, period. I

was just saying what i think the filmmakers wanted to show us. And i

think my theory holds up pretty well. More 'proof': heavenly

creatures = angels = messengers from god. I think it's very poetic,

p&j as angels, taking honora's life.

I'm not saying the title isn't poetic, because it is. But, it

was

a direct quote from Pauline's diary so I don't think it can

translated that way. Pauline and Juliet believed that they

were

'heavenly creatures' but that doesn't mean that they were-at

least not in the literal sense. And it's just my personal

point

of view, but I see nothing angelic in what they did to Honora.

I rewatched the film this past weekend. I hadn't watched it

since

December of 1997, but before that I had watched it many

times. It

upset me more this past weekend than it ever had before.

Because

of the discussion on this list I watched for things all of

you

mentioned and I got much more out of it. The scene where

Honora

breaks down in tears really got to me.

The first time I saw the film, I didn't think Honora deserved

what she got, but I wasn't as sympathetic to her as I am now.

Her

crying scene, to me, showed how much she loved and cared for

her

daughter and how lost and helpless she felt in dealing with

her.

Think about it-if she really didn't care about her, she

wouldn't

have gotten so upset over the situation.

I was wondering if anyone knows if Juliet's father was really

the

way he was potrayed in the film. Because from Pauline's diary

entries, it's obvious that the girls almost rated him up

there

with the 'saints.'

Sorry if it was too long.

-Brandi^^

**********************

"I-I think I'm dying."

"Don't!"

--Pauline and Juliet

**********************

--------------- END heavenly-c.v001.n778 ---------------

Date:

Tue, 2 Jun 1998 19:59:08 -0700 (PDT)

From:

heavenly-c-errors@lists.best.com Add to Address Book

Subject:

Digest heavenly-c.v001.n779

Reply-To:

heavenly-c@lists.best.com

To:

heavenly-c@lists.best.com

-------------- BEGIN heavenly-c.v001.n779 --------------

001 - antonioa@spin.com.mx ( =? - Re: my comments...

002 - "Jennifer Sellers" <jengr - Re: my comments...(ot)

003 - "E. Jean Guerin" <orson@v - 2cents: Titles

004 - antonioa@spin.com.mx ( =? - Re: my comments...(ot) (OT)

005 - Bettina.Hahn@t-online.de - Real Henry Hulme

006 - Bettina.Hahn@t-online.de - Re: my comments...(ot)

007 - mailcall <mailcall@bluema - hail borovnians...

008 - Laurin McNiff <englishpat - Re: Real Henry Hulme

009 - Juliana Bastos <jbastos@u - Re: 2cents

010 - Juliana Bastos <jbastos@u - Re: my comments...( not too OT)

--------------- MESSAGE heavenly-c.v001.n779.1 ---------------

From: antonioa@spin.com.mx ( =?iso-8859-1?Q?Jos=E9?= Antonio Abad

Trillo)

Subject: Re: my comments...

Date: Mon, 1 Jun 1998 22:26:02 -0500

MIME-Version: 1.0

Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"

Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

Kate wrote:

>Anyways... I wish I lived where they still showed it in theaters! I

would

>love to see it on the big screen and the people on here than can are

SO luc=

ky!

I live in Mexico City (22,000,000 people or so) and theaters continue

showing it. In fact, last friday I went with one friend to saw it

again.

It's great. This is a huge city and you can find hundreds of cinemas,

but

only on five or six HC is shown. By now, it has been presented for two

months. The official film burou (Cineteca Nacional) made very good

critics

about it. Maybe the will show it to. I don't know if it has been

shown in

the rest of the country. I don't think so, because this is a very

catholic

and, in some sort of way, an homophobic country. We're the third world.

So sad. I travel a lot because of my job and I haven't seen it in any

theater besides Mexico City. If you can travel here this week you will

catch it! :)

>I also heard that Anne Perry (aka Juliet) will be on the Discovery

Channel

>Thursday June 4th. Can anyone confirm or deny this? I think the show

is o=

>kids murdering their parents and she is one of the interviewees. It's

star=

>at 11:00 pm here in NY but I'm not sure about other places. I will

have my

>VCR ready though just in case. :)

My cable provider only features Latin Discovery, so, for me it's a very

huge shame to miss the show. Maybe one of you cretaures could tape it

for

me and send the video here. I will pay for everything. Any volunteers?

>PS: TO JOSE ANTONIO... I think you were the one who said you had the

kiss=

ing

>scene as your wallpaper on your computer. Could you send me the

picture or

>any others that you use for wallpaper? I think that would be a great

way t=

>start up a conversation about HC!

This is for Kate:

I sure will. I have it on my office computer so you will have to wait

until tomorrow to have it. It is not very well distributed (esthetics)

and

it is not transformed by any computer program but I love the scenes

involved, so don't expect a master piece although it is for me. :) It

only a collage with some scenes.

>I would appreciate it SO much!!!

It will be my pleasure and I'll be honored if you use it. Any one of

you

dearest creatures.

Thanks for reading

Jos=E9 Antonio

------------------------------------------------------

| Cuanto mas grande la cabeza, mas fuerte la jaqueca. |

| The bigger the head, the bigger the headache |

------------------------------------------------------

--------------- MESSAGE heavenly-c.v001.n779.2 ---------------

From: "Jennifer Sellers" <jengrrrl@worldnet.att.net>

Subject: Re: my comments...(ot)

Date: Mon, 1 Jun 1998 17:42:26 -0700

MIME-Version: 1.0

Content-Type: text/plain;

charset="iso-8859-1"

Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit

this is just my opinion, no offense to Jose. I have a real problem with

the

label placed on some nations. third world? that's just something

so-called

developed nations use to keep other nations down. another culture or

way of

life should not be disparaged by calling it "third" anything. again,

just my

opinion. (I did put OT in the subject so no one should be angry about

this

post)

Jennifer sellers

-----Original Message-----

From: José Antonio Abad Trillo <antonioa@spin.com.mx>

To: heavenly-c@lists.best.com <heavenly-c@lists.best.com>

Date: Monday, June 01, 1998 8:27 PM

Subject: Re: my comments...

Kate wrote:

>Anyways... I wish I lived where they still showed it in theaters! I

would

>love to see it on the big screen and the people on here than can are SO

lucky!

I live in Mexico City (22,000,000 people or so) and theaters continue

showing it. In fact, last friday I went with one friend to saw it

again.

It's great. This is a huge city and you can find hundreds of cinemas,

but

only on five or six HC is shown. By now, it has been presented for two

months. The official film burou (Cineteca Nacional) made very good

critics

about it. Maybe the will show it to. I don't know if it has been

shown in

the rest of the country. I don't think so, because this is a very

catholic

and, in some sort of way, an homophobic country. We're the third world.

So sad. I travel a lot because of my job and I haven't seen it in any

theater besides Mexico City. If you can travel here this week you will

catch it! :)

>I also heard that Anne Perry (aka Juliet) will be on the Discovery

Channel

>Thursday June 4th. Can anyone confirm or deny this? I think the show

>kids murdering their parents and she is one of the interviewees. It's

starts

>at 11:00 pm here in NY but I'm not sure about other places. I will

have my

>VCR ready though just in case. :)

My cable provider only features Latin Discovery, so, for me it's a very

huge shame to miss the show. Maybe one of you cretaures could tape it

for

me and send the video here. I will pay for everything. Any volunteers?

>PS: TO JOSE ANTONIO... I think you were the one who said you had the

kissing

>scene as your wallpaper on your computer. Could you send me the

picture or

>any others that you use for wallpaper? I think that would be a great

way

>start up a conversation about HC!

This is for Kate:

I sure will. I have it on my office computer so you will have to wait

until tomorrow to have it. It is not very well distributed (esthetics)

and

it is not transformed by any computer program but I love the scenes

involved, so don't expect a master piece although it is for me. :) It

only a collage with some scenes.

>I would appreciate it SO much!!!

It will be my pleasure and I'll be honored if you use it. Any one of

you

dearest creatures.

Thanks for reading

José Antonio

------------------------------------------------------

| Cuanto mas grande la cabeza, mas fuerte la jaqueca. |

| The bigger the head, the bigger the headache |

------------------------------------------------------

--------------- MESSAGE heavenly-c.v001.n779.3 ---------------

From: "E. Jean Guerin" <orson@videotron.ca>

Subject: 2cents: Titles

Date: Tue, 2 Jun 98 00:15:21 -0400

MIME-Version: 1.0

Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII"

brsmith@nass.usda.gov wrote:

>I see nothing angelic in what they did to Honora.

It's called irony. This is what makes the P&H case so fascinating.

These were not pot-smoking kids on Prozac who were influenced by Heavy

Metal music and too much South Park.

These were kids weaned on Bible epics and Opera. Kids who to the best

schools in a country with the highest literacy rates in the world.

Kids hooked on Mario Lanza.

No wonder the blood came as such a shock to them ...

... as did the sudden revelation that unlike movies, real people don't

just drop dead with a bonk on the head.

The B&W (or sepia) fantasy shots we see at the beginning and the end

are

like the movie playing in her mind. In the NZ cut we get an abrupt

flash

of Melanie, in color, covered in blood as if the B&W movie had a tragic

end (just like her opera) and she suddenly was left with the gory

reality.

(:^)]

--------------- MESSAGE heavenly-c.v001.n779.4 ---------------

From: antonioa@spin.com.mx ( =?iso-8859-1?Q?Jos=E9?= Antonio Abad

Trillo)

Subject: Re: my comments...(ot) (OT)

Date: Tue, 2 Jun 1998 04:07:34 -0500

MIME-Version: 1.0

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>this is just my opinion, no offense to Jose. I have a real problem

with the

>label placed on some nations. third world? that's just something

so-called

>developed nations use to keep other nations down. another culture or

way o=

>life should not be disparaged by calling it "third" anything. again,

just m=

>opinion. (I did put OT in the subject so no one should be angry about

this

>post)

No offense at all. I do agree with you. I don't like to minimize the

culture, in any way, of any "undeveloped" country, but it's a fact that

the

gap in education, perspective and priorities between population well

feed

and educated and starved people with 3rd grade education is huge. I

love

my country and I love my people but also I'm concern that my government

more worried about how to steal more money and how they try to keep my

people in the ignorance just to keep the anarchy and the power in their

hands than their real efforts to develop this country. It's sad. Here,

the

difference between the poor and the rich is real huge, and I mean HUGE,

are 100,000,000 habs and 70,000,000 are poor where 50,000,000 are

extreme

poor. We do have great people and big ones but they are harder to find.

Values are low and people are (with a reason) more interested in what

they

will eat tomorrow than trying to understand that we are all the same.

The

poor hates the rich and the rich hates the poor. It's a very sad

reality.

I'm sorry because I know this post is for much out of the subject, but

also can give you all a perspective of the reality of my country.

Anyway

you will enjoy it a lot if you ever visit here. It's beautyfull.

The general comment (Not from all) here to HC is the despective Two

lesbians killers in an extremist point of view.

No further discussion about this trying not to annoy anoyone, ok?

Thanks for reading

Jos=E9 Antonio

------------------------------------------------------

| Cuanto mas grande la cabeza, mas fuerte la jaqueca. |

| The bigger the head, the bigger the headache |

------------------------------------------------------

--------------- MESSAGE heavenly-c.v001.n779.5 ---------------

From: Bettina.Hahn@t-online.de (Bettina.Hahn)

Subject: Real Henry Hulme

Date: Tue, 2 Jun 1998 11:57:27 +0200

MIME-Version: 1.0

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References: <199806011835.LAA08452@lists1.best.com>

> I was wondering if anyone knows if Juliet's father was

really the

> way he was potrayed in the film. Because from Pauline's

diary

> entries, it's obvious that the girls almost rated him up

there

> with the 'saints.'

They really seem to adore him, but I think if they had known that it

was his idea to send Paul to the doctor, they wouldn´t have liked it.

He is really kind to them, but he only tries to find out what their

plans are. He would never have let them go to Hollywood, nor even Gina

come with Juliet. In fact, he seems to be one of the most ignorant

persons in this story. I hate the way he says to Honora " there is

something wrong with YOUR daughter", but his own daughter is perfectly

innocent. Of course she is, as the daughter of a famous scientist like

Dr. Hulme...

I think real Henry was like this, too. I somewere have a photo of him,

and he even looks the same. I read somewere that he was one of the men

who helped building the first H-bomb... after the murder, he and

little Jonty went to Southafrica, from there to England, I think.

Hope that helps a little.. :-)

*hugs*

Betty

--------------- MESSAGE heavenly-c.v001.n779.6 ---------------

From: Bettina.Hahn@t-online.de (Bettina.Hahn)

Subject: Re: my comments...(ot)

Date: Tue, 2 Jun 1998 12:00:57 +0200

MIME-Version: 1.0

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References: <199806020404.VAA19018@lists1.best.com>

Jennifer Sellers schrieb:

> this is just my opinion, no offense to Jose. I have a real problem

with the

> label placed on some nations. third world? that's just something

so-called

> developed nations use to keep other nations down. another culture

or way of

> life should not be disparaged by calling it "third" anything. again,

just my

> opinion. (I did put OT in the subject so no one should be angry

about this

> post)

Oh I´m sure noone will be angry. Somehow it is related to HC because I

think nations wich are even poorer are called "fourth world"... ;c)

I think it´s only the cathegory of a nation´s " gross national

product" that decides wether it´s 1st, 2nd, 3rd or 4th world. I´m sure

they didn´t mean to keep other nation´s down...

Anyway, If I say: "I´d love to live in the Fourth world" , I have to

be careful, cause a "nonHC" would think I´m crazy (who cares?)

Well, never mind this, it just came to my mind... :)

*hugs*

Betty

--------------- MESSAGE heavenly-c.v001.n779.7 ---------------

From: mailcall <mailcall@bluemarble.net>

Subject: hail borovnians...

Date: Tue, 2 Jun 1998 17:33:48 -0500 (EST)

MIME-Version: 1.0

Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII

(mela appears on the balcony in her usual borovnian herald getup)

go thou to the following website,

http://www.dramatica.com/dCritiques_folder/dAnalyses_folder/heavenly_creatures.html

if you haven't been there already. fascinating stuff.

--==** melanthe alexian **==--

...she just slipped away...

--------------- MESSAGE heavenly-c.v001.n779.8 ---------------

From: Laurin McNiff <englishpatient@home.com>

Subject: Re: Real Henry Hulme

Date: Tue, 02 Jun 1998 20:19:38 -0400

MIME-Version: 1.0

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Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

References: <199806011835.LAA08452@lists1.best.com>

<199806021000.DAA21669@lists1.best.com>

Dear Creatures,

Hmm, in respect to this post, I guess you need to have seen

the Grail version to get the aspect I did. Certainly in the US cut,

Henry Hulme appears as uncaring and cold hearted, but lets not forget

that in the Grail there are scenes (very important ones that were

snipped away!) of Henry Hulme crying on his chair because the board at

the university basically told him it was time to shove off back to

England. So, his emotions were obviously a mixture of fear and sadness.

In the scene where the board tells him he is "more fit for England

schools." he explains "But my daughter needs a warmer climate!" And

after hearing Hilda and Bill upstairs, he knows his life is in ruins and

cries in his chair. So, there are obvious feelings and geniuine concern.

All in all, the grail depicts him with a little more humanity and

"warmth" than does the US version. So, in my (humble of course) opinion

if you haven't gotten your hands on the grail, do it soon!

Regards,

Laurin

The Heavenly Creatures Webhome

http://members.home.com/englishpatient/hc.html

--------------- MESSAGE heavenly-c.v001.n779.9 ---------------

From: Juliana Bastos <jbastos@usp.br>

Subject: Re: 2cents

Date: Tue, 02 Jun 1998 23:46:49 -0300

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boundary="------------AD98078C0D6BEB1B8670E08E"

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> These were not pot-smoking kids on Prozac who were influenced by Heavy

> Metal music and too much South Park.

> These were kids weaned on Bible epics and Opera. Kids who to the best

> schools in a country with the highest literacy rates in the world.

> Kids hooked on Mario Lanza.

> No wonder the blood came as such a shock to them ...

> ... as did the sudden revelation that unlike movies, real people don't

> just drop dead with a bonk on the head.

Sorry to post just a message to say I agree with it, but this is SO

true.

This for me is the essence of the whole story. That's why I don't think

is about a murder, but it's about WHAT HAPPENED to two girls that they

found

out their only way out was a murder. I think Henry Hulme was the real

responsible person for this, because HE was the one who started thinking

that there was something "wrong" with the girls' relationship. HE told

Honora to send Pauline to Dr. Benett; and of course it had to be

Pauline,

the problem is always with the others...

At least in the film, Hilda is portrayed as being liberal, and it's

quite

likely that she was, as we can see by her solution in the Bill Perry

problem

(to "live as a threesome"). Honora, and specially Herbert, could never

restrict so much Pauline's actions BY THEMSELVES, before Henry told

them to

do so (with Dr. Benett, remember his diagnosis was quite a surprise for

Honora). All the big pressure was on Pauline then, and Juliet didn't

suffer

from it as Paul did.

Of course you can correct me if I'm wrong, but that's just the

impression I

get. One thing is clear, as like Jean wrote, the times were much

different

then - I can't understand, living in the 90's, what they had to fight

against, in the 50's.

Juliana.

--------------AD98078C0D6BEB1B8670E08E

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<HTML>

<BLOCKQUOTE TYPE=CITE><TT>These were not pot-smoking kids on Prozac who

were influenced by Heavy</TT>

<TT>Metal music and too much South Park.</TT><TT></TT>

<TT>These were kids weaned on Bible epics and Opera. Kids who to the

best</TT>

<TT>schools in a country with the highest literacy rates in the

world.</TT><TT></TT>

<TT>Kids hooked on Mario Lanza.</TT><TT></TT>

<TT>No wonder the blood came as such a shock to them

...</TT><TT></TT>

<TT>... as did the sudden revelation that unlike movies, real people

don't</TT>

<TT>Sorry to post just a message to say I agree with it, but this is SO

true. This for me is the essence of the whole story. That's why I don't

think HC is about a murder, but it's about WHAT HAPPENED to two girls

that

they found out their only way out was a murder. I think Henry Hulme was

the real responsible person for this, because HE was the one who started

thinking that there was something "wrong" with the girls' relationship.

HE told Honora to send Pauline to Dr. Benett; and of course it had to be

Pauline, the problem is always with the others...</TT><TT></TT>

<TT>At least in the film, Hilda is portrayed as being liberal, and

it's

quite likely that she was, as we can see by her solution in the Bill

Perry

problem (to "live as a threesome"). Honora, and specially Herbert, could

never restrict so much Pauline's actions BY THEMSELVES, before Henry

told

them to do so (with Dr. Benett, remember his diagnosis was quite a

surprise

for Honora). All the big pressure was on Pauline then, and Juliet didn't

suffer from it as Paul did.</TT><TT></TT>

<TT>Of course you can correct me if I'm wrong, but that's just the

impression

I get. One thing is clear, as like Jean wrote, the times were much

different

then - I can't understand, living in the 90's, what they had to fight

against,

in the 50's.</TT><TT></TT>

<TT>Juliana.</TT></HTML>

--------------AD98078C0D6BEB1B8670E08E--

--------------- MESSAGE heavenly-c.v001.n779.10 ---------------

From: Juliana Bastos <jbastos@usp.br>

Subject: Re: my comments...( not too OT)

Date: Tue, 02 Jun 1998 23:04:51 -0300

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--------------006383A41CF07B1410083EA1

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Jennifer Sellers wrote:

> this is just my opinion, no offense to Jose. I have a real problem

with the

> label placed on some nations. third world? that's just something

so-called

> developed nations use to keep other nations down. another culture or

way of

> life should not be disparaged by calling it "third" anything.

That's because you don't live here... But apart from poverty and all

the social

and economic factors that characterize what we call "Third World",

there's also

the cultural "Third World": probably the only city in Mexico that can

play HC is

Mexico City, maybe a couple more. The same as Sao Paulo, here HC was a

screen

success, if we count the small "art cinemas" circuit where it was on.

It could

never be screened in some areas in Brazil, as maybe in some cities in

the

Southern USA, like in the "Bible Belt". I'm quite lucky to have the

opportunity

of living in a place where I can have tons of friends and acquintances

who just

love HC (most of them are gay, but that's another story...), but I

could never

show it to some strict catholic and homophobic members of my family

(sabe, neh

Jaime, a tradicional familia mineira).

> My cable provider only features Latin Discovery, so, for me it's a

very huge >

shame to miss the show. Maybe one of you cretaures could tape it for

me and >

send the video here. I will pay for everything. Any volunteers?

Hmm, can I ask for it too?...

Just another thing, I'm almost sure that the Brazilian HC poster is

different

from all others I've seen. Adam told me it could be like the French

poster, as

it is the Port Levy scene, but it's like the Italian CD cover, the

original

colors and all, and so it seems to be unlike any other (hey Jose, how's

the

Mexican poster like?). But please, don't start asking me for a copy

because I

still don't know how to get it. As soon as I have any info on it I'll

sure tell

you.

By the way, why are ther so many different versions of the poster? Is

it common

on a film distribution?

Sorry for the long post,

Juliana.

--------------006383A41CF07B1410083EA1

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<HTML>

<TT>Jennifer Sellers wrote:</TT>

<BLOCKQUOTE TYPE=CITE><TT>this is just my opinion, no offense to Jose.

I have a real problem with the</TT>

<TT>label placed on some nations. third world? that's just something

so-called</TT>

<TT>developed nations use to keep other nations down. another

culture or way of</TT>

<TT>life should not be disparaged by calling it "third"

anything.</TT></BLOCKQUOTE>

<TT>That's because you don't live here... But apart from poverty and all

the social and economic factors that characterize what we call "Third

World",

there's also the cultural "Third World": probably the only city in

Mexico

that can play HC is Mexico City, maybe a couple more. The same as Sao

Paulo,

here HC was a screen success, if we count the small "art cinemas"

circuit

where it was on. It could never be screened in some areas in Brazil, as

maybe in some cities in the Southern USA, like in the "Bible Belt". I'm

quite lucky to have the opportunity of living in a place where I can

have

tons of friends and acquintances who just love HC (most of them are gay,

but that's another story...), but I could never show it to some strict

catholic and homophobic members of my family (sabe, neh Jaime, a

tradicional

familia mineira).</TT>

<TT>> My cable provider only features Latin Discovery, so, for me

it's

a very huge > shame to miss the show. Maybe one of you cretaures

could tape it for me and > send the video here. I will pay for

everything.

Any volunteers?</TT><TT></TT>

<TT>Just another thing, I'm almost sure that the Brazilian HC poster

is different from all others I've seen. Adam told me it could be like

the

French poster, as it is the Port Levy scene, but it's like the Italian

CD cover, the original colors and all, and so it seems to be unlike any

other (hey Jose, how's the Mexican poster like?). But please, don't

start

asking me for a copy because I still don't know how to get it. As soon

as I have any info on it I'll sure tell you.</TT><TT></TT>

<TT>By the way, why are ther so many different versions of the

poster?

Is it common on a film distribution?</TT><TT></TT>

<TT>Sorry for the long post,</TT>

<TT>Juliana.</TT></HTML>

--------------006383A41CF07B1410083EA1--

--------------- END heavenly-c.v001.n779 ---------------

Date:

Wed, 3 Jun 1998 14:31:20 -0700 (PDT)

From:

heavenly-c-errors@lists.best.com Add to Address Book

Subject:

Digest heavenly-c.v001.n780

Reply-To:

heavenly-c@lists.best.com

To:

heavenly-c@lists.best.com

-------------- BEGIN heavenly-c.v001.n780 --------------

001 - "Jennifer Sellers" <jengr - Re: my comments...( not too OT)

002 - Jeff Hamilton <jeffhamilt - Re: my comments...( not too OT)

003 - Tine Nielsen <tinen@dorit - Re: Crying in movies

004 - brsmith@nass.usda.gov - Re[2]: Real Henry Hulme

005 - mailcall <mailcall@bluema - HTMLised posts (NHCC)

006 - mailcall <mailcall@bluema - Re: Diello/Lobby Cards

007 - mailcall <mailcall@bluema - Re: The scary bit!! ;-)

008 - "E. Jean Guerin" <orson@v - Re:OT: HTMLised posts

009 - mailcall <mailcall@bluema - Re:OT: HTMLised posts

010 - mailcall <mailcall@bluema - fourth world (OT)

--------------- MESSAGE heavenly-c.v001.n780.1 ---------------

From: "Jennifer Sellers" <jengrrrl@worldnet.att.net>

Subject: Re: my comments...( not too OT)

Date: Tue, 2 Jun 1998 16:53:17 -0700

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the western ideal is not necessarily the best one. i just think that a =

culture, whatever it may be, should not be referred to as inferior =

simply because of its beliefs. of course we (mostly) prefer the wests =

version of things; we have cool stuff and can do almost anything we

want =

to. all i am saying is that totality is bad. and i have spent a lot of =

time in mexico. my mother is mexican.=20

jennifer sellers

-i will now stop with this, i know its getting boring-

-----Original Message-----

From: Juliana Bastos <jbastos@usp.br>

To: heavenly-c@lists.best.com <heavenly-c@lists.best.com>

Date: Tuesday, June 02, 1998 8:05 PM

Subject: Re: my comments...( not too OT)

=20

Jennifer Sellers wrote:=20

this is just my opinion, no offense to Jose. I have a real problem =

with the=20

label placed on some nations. third world? that's just

something =

so-called=20

developed nations use to keep other nations down. another =

culture or way of=20

life should not be disparaged by calling it "third" anything.

That's because you don't live here... But apart from poverty

and =

all the social and economic factors that characterize what we call =

"Third World", there's also the cultural "Third World": probably the =

only city in Mexico that can play HC is Mexico City, maybe a couple =

more. The same as Sao Paulo, here HC was a screen success, if we count =

the small "art cinemas" circuit where it was on. It could never be =

screened in some areas in Brazil, as maybe in some cities in the =

Southern USA, like in the "Bible Belt". I'm quite lucky to have the =

opportunity of living in a place where I can have tons of friends and =

acquintances who just love HC (most of them are gay, but that's another

story...), but I could never show it to some strict catholic and =

homophobic members of my family (sabe, neh Jaime, a tradicional familia

mineira).=20

=20

> My cable provider only features Latin Discovery, so, for me it's

a =

very huge > shame to miss the show. Maybe one of you cretaures could =

tape it for me and > send the video here. I will pay for everything. =

Any volunteers?=20

=20

Hmm, can I ask for it too?...=20

=20

Just another thing, I'm almost sure that the Brazilian HC poster is

different from all others I've seen. Adam told me it could be like the =

French poster, as it is the Port Levy scene, but it's like the Italian =

CD cover, the original colors and all, and so it seems to be unlike any

other (hey Jose, how's the Mexican poster like?). But please, don't =

start asking me for a copy because I still don't know how to get it. As

soon as I have any info on it I'll sure tell you.=20

=20

By the way, why are ther so many different versions of the poster? =

Is it common on a film distribution?=20

=20

Sorry for the long post,=20

:*=20

Juliana.=20

=20

------=_NextPart_000_0029_01BD8E46.F1230160

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<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD W3 HTML//EN">

<HTML>

<HEAD>

<META content=3Dtext/html;charset=3Diso-8859-1 =

http-equiv=3DContent-Type>

</HEAD>

<DIV>the western ideal is not

necessarily =

the best=20

one. i just think that a culture, whatever it may be, should not be =

referred to=20

as inferior simply because of its beliefs. of course we (mostly) prefer

the=20

wests version of things; we have cool stuff and can do almost anything =

we want=20

to. all i am saying is that totality is bad. and i have spent a lot of =

time in=20

mexico. my mother is mexican. </DIV>

<DIV>jennifer=20

sellers</DIV>

<DIV>-i will now stop with this, i know its getting=20

boring- </DIV>

<BLOCKQUOTE=20

style=3D"BORDER-LEFT: #000000 solid 2px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px;

PADDING-LEFT: =

5px">

<DIV>-----Original =

Message----- From:=20

Juliana Bastos <<A=20

href=3D"mailto:jbastos@usp.br"%3ejbastos@usp.br</A>> To: =

<A=20

href=3D"mailto:heavenly-c@lists.best.com"%3eheavenly-c@lists.best.com</A>

<<A=20

href=3D"mailto:heavenly-c@lists.best.com"%3eheavenly-c@lists.best.com</A>&g=

t; Date:=20

Tuesday, June 02, 1998 8:05 PM Subject: Re: my =

comments...(=20

not too OT) </DIV><TT>Jennifer Sellers wrote:</TT>=20

<BLOCKQUOTE TYPE =3D CITE><TT>this is just my opinion, no offense

to =

Jose.=20

I have a real problem with the</TT> <TT>label placed on

some =

nations. third world? that's just something so-called</TT>=20

<TT>developed nations use to keep other nations down.

another=20

culture or way of</TT> <TT>life should not be disparaged by

calling=20

it "third" anything.</TT></BLOCKQUOTE><TT>That's =

because you don't=20

live here... But apart from poverty and all the social and economic

factors=20

that characterize what we call "Third World", there's

also =

the=20

cultural "Third World": probably the only city in Mexico =

that can=20

play HC is Mexico City, maybe a couple more. The same as Sao Paulo,

here HC=20

was a screen success, if we count the small "art cinemas"

circuit=20

where it was on. It could never be screened in some areas in

Brazil, =

as=20

maybe in some cities in the Southern USA, like in the "Bible=20

Belt". I'm quite lucky to have the opportunity of living in a =

place=20

where I can have tons of friends and acquintances who just love HC =

(most of=20

them are gay, but that's another story...), but I could never show =

it to=20

some strict catholic and homophobic members of my family (sabe, neh

Jaime, a=20

tradicional familia mineira).</TT> <TT></TT> <TT></TT>=20

<TT>> My cable provider only features Latin Discovery, so,

for =

me it's=20

a very huge > shame to miss the show. Maybe one of you =

cretaures=20

could tape it for me and > send the video here. I will pay for=20

everything. Any volunteers?</TT><TT></TT>=20

<TT>Hmm, can I ask for it too?...</TT><TT></TT>=20

<TT>Just another thing, I'm almost sure that the Brazilian HC =

poster is=20

different from all others I've seen. Adam told me it could be like =

the=20

French poster, as it is the Port Levy scene, but it's like the =

Italian CD=20

cover, the original colors and all, and so it seems to be unlike

any =

other=20

(hey Jose, how's the Mexican poster like?). But please, don't start

asking=20

me for a copy because I still don't know how to get it. As soon as

I =

have=20

any info on it I'll sure tell you.</TT><TT></TT>=20

<TT>By the way, why are ther so many different versions of the =

poster? Is=20

it common on a film distribution?</TT><TT></TT>=20

<TT>Sorry for the long post,</TT> <TT>:*</TT> =

<TT>Juliana.</TT>=20

</BLOCKQUOTE></BODY></HTML>

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--------------- MESSAGE heavenly-c.v001.n780.2 ---------------

From: Jeff Hamilton <jeffhamilton@mindspring.com>

Subject: Re: my comments...( not too OT)

Date: Tue, 02 Jun 1998 23:44:33 -0400

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References: <199806020404.VAA19018@lists1.best.com>

In-Reply-To: <199806030259.TAA04231@lists1.best.com>

At 11:04 PM 6/2/98 -0300, Juliana Bastos wrote:

> That's because you don't live here... But apart from poverty and all

the

>social and economic factors that characterize what we call "Third

World",

>there's also the cultural "Third World": probably the only city in

Mexico

>that can play HC is Mexico City, maybe a couple more. The same as Sao

>Paulo, here HC was a screen success, if we count the small "art

cinemas"

>circuit where it was on. It could never be screened in some areas in

>Brazil, as maybe in some cities in the Southern USA, like in the "Bible

>Belt".

Perhaps - as quite a few movies and albums are hard to come by down

here,

but I managed to see "Heavenly Creaturesa" in a theatre right here in

the

"Bible Belt".

Jeff Hamilton - the capitalist

http://www.mindspring.com/~jeffhamilton/

to join the 461 (network), send a message to four.six.one@mindspring.com

and hope for the best

--------------- MESSAGE heavenly-c.v001.n780.3 ---------------

From: Tine Nielsen <tinen@dorit.ihi.ku.dk>

Subject: Re: Crying in movies

Date: Wed, 03 Jun 1998 13:33:36 +0200

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<199805291250.FAA08288@lists1.best.com>

In-Reply-To: <199805301006.DAA13244@lists1.best.com>

Hi People,

Delurking here for a moment.

At 10:02 30-05-98 GMT, you wrote:

>>On Fri, 29 May 1998 13:47:11 +0100, Gem* <gemnet@btinternet.com>

>Hehe, i know. It's weird, but i love crying during films. And i

>don't even need a very tragic story to open the floodgates, any good

>film will do. A few months ago i watched a mediocre film called

>BEAUTIFUL GIRLS, and i found myself crying during all the scenes with

>natalie portman. Not because the story was so sad or anything, but

>just because of the sheer beauty of her acting. Hehe, i even cry for

>some of bob richardson's beautiful cinematography in NBK (hi jean, i'm

>back).

I actually quite liked that film. It was a cozy little thing in its own

genre kinda like The Full Monty. And yes Nathalie Portman was great,

but so

was Timorthy Hutton and Matt Dillon.

Cheers,

=====================================================

"When everything gets tough, denials all we have"

tinen@dorit.ihi.ku.dk/bridehead@hotmail.com

=====================================================

--------------- MESSAGE heavenly-c.v001.n780.4 ---------------

From: brsmith@nass.usda.gov

Subject: Re[2]: Real Henry Hulme

Date: Wed, 03 Jun 98 07:18:25 -0500

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Laurin,

Thanks for this perspective. The subject of Mr. Hulme has actually

bothered me

since I saw the movie. It's nice to know he was a bit more human than

what we

get to see in the U.S. version of the film. I found his character a bit

odd,

since the other main characters were much more humam-more real-than he

seemed to

be. Now I can watch the film with a whole new perspectie. I only hope

that I get

to see the 'grail' sometime before I die!!!