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-------------- BEGIN heavenly-c.v001.n118 --------------
001 - Thaiphong Vo <thaivo@ea.o - Re: Sense & Sensibility
002 - Phil West <pgw16@hermes.c - Spiking Kate's chowder
003 - Michael Pellas <mpellas@s - Re: Sense & Sensibility
004 - plath3@his.com (Peter Lat - Re:Weighed in the Balance
005 - "Jefferson F. Morris" <jf - Jackson's cameos
006 - RICHARD MUNDIE <rmundie@e - Port Levy
007 - Phil West <pgw16@hermes.c - The Donkey Serenade
008 - shannon <9506148v@Magpie. - Re: Port Levy
009 - Douglas J K <c9315678@ali - All things Pink
010 - alicia@crafti.com.au - Re: All things Pink
--------------- MESSAGE heavenly-c.v001.n118.1 ---------------
From: Thaiphong Vo <thaivo@ea.oac.uci.edu>
Subject: Re: Sense & Sensibility
Date: Wed, 11 Sep 1996 00:38:08 -0700 (PDT)
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII
> "Excuse me, but can i be you for a while?"
"My dog won't bite, if you sit real still.."
I went to Tower and obtained the HC soundtrack, sadly they only had
one. : ) Are you still interested?
----------------------------
"New Year's Resolution...Is a far more selfish one this year..
It is to make my motto, eat, drink and be merry... for tomorrow
you may be dead." - Pauline Parker 1954~
Melanie Lynskey: The One I Worship (http://www.best.com/~thaivo)
---------------------------
--------------- MESSAGE heavenly-c.v001.n118.2 ---------------
From: Phil West <pgw16@hermes.cam.ac.uk>
Subject: Spiking Kate's chowder
Date: Wed, 11 Sep 1996 10:06:49 +0100 (BST)
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII
Dear All (and to newcomers everywhere... welcome)
Someone has spiked Kate Winslet!
No, not Diello, or even Charles. The dodgier end of the British press
recently reported that the whole crew of the 'Titanic' went bonkers when
someone spiked their lobster chowder with a hallucinogenic drug.
'Bloody' Bill Baxton (star of 'Twister') said: 'Some people were laughing,
some people were crying and some people were throwing up'. No news of
which category KW fell into, unfortunately. Perhaps she was singing.
Whoever did this got the drug right, at least. It was phencylidine -
commonly known as angel dust.
Such a heavenly creature.
Phil
P.S. New Zealand accents? Get your friendly neighbourhood Kiwi to say
'Fish and Chips' for you sometime. It comes out rather brilliantly as
'Fush end Chups', which certainly delights English ears. (Apologies to
all healthy Kiwis). And as for Melanie's 'Only about ten people hev'ut'...
--------------- MESSAGE heavenly-c.v001.n118.3 ---------------
From: Michael Pellas <mpellas@sgi.net>
Subject: Re: Sense & Sensibility
Date: Wed, 11 Sep 1996 08:46:47 -0400
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
"I got the Anti'Christ in the Kitchen yelling at me again..."
Third tow for her concert here on saturday by the way...can't wait!!!
Yes...very interested. I'll get the money order out to you as soon as I can.
Thank you very very much. I can't velieve there isn't one anywhere in this
town.
PS...was your zip right? You said they just changed it on you...
Mike
--------------- MESSAGE heavenly-c.v001.n118.4 ---------------
From: plath3@his.com (Peter Latham)
Subject: Re:Weighed in the Balance
Date: Wed, 11 Sep 1996 08:20:28 -0500
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
About two weeks ago, I saw a copy of Ms.Perry's newest book: WEIGHED IN THE
BALANCE, which is a Monk/Latterly mystery. I was told that the book is not
yet available for sale to the public because no price has been set for
it.Does anyone know when the book will be available? I find it hard to
believe the hardcover price won't be $22.50. On the other hand I find it
hard to believe there's a book store that doesn't want to sell books.
Sincerely,
Peter Latham
--------------- MESSAGE heavenly-c.v001.n118.5 ---------------
From: "Jefferson F. Morris" <jfmorris@CapAccess.org>
Subject: Jackson's cameos
Date: Tue, 10 Sep 1996 10:13:20 -0400 (EDT)
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII
On Sun, 8 Sep 1996, Thaiphong Vo wrote:
> I enjoyed Bad Taste even more though..Since Peter Jackson has
> such a large role, actually roles..
I remember when I saw that film. For some reason I couldn't quite
believe that Jackson had played both of those parts. I just didn't see
any resemblance between the bearded, zombie PJ, and "Derek."
It is rather fun to watch PJ wrestle himself in 'Bad Taste.' Reminds me
of Divine's sexual self-assault in John Water's 'Female Trouble.' I
wonder if PJ is a Waters afficionado?
--Jefferson
--------------- MESSAGE heavenly-c.v001.n118.6 ---------------
From: RICHARD MUNDIE <rmundie@es.co.nz>
Subject: Port Levy
Date: Thu, 12 Sep 96 07:13 GMT+1200
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
Does anyone else think that the "photographs" bit while the Hulmes and Paul
are at Pt. Levy (just before the sandcastle) is just really cool? I love it,
but I'm not sure why. Perhaps it's the music, which appealed to me the first
time I heard it and continues to do so, and the feeling that everyone is
enjoying themselves and that it's a really close, happy family outing (up
until the point where Henry "ruins" it all, or so it seems at first).
It also occured to me that, seeing as it's Easter, the water must have been
really cold (spring is not v. warm here in NZ)!
Anyhow, that was all fairly meaningless...:-)
GREER
--------------- MESSAGE heavenly-c.v001.n118.7 ---------------
From: Phil West <pgw16@hermes.cam.ac.uk>
Subject: The Donkey Serenade
Date: Wed, 11 Sep 1996 21:53:22 +0100 (BST)
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII
According to my CD collection of the world's greatest tenor, 'The Donkey
Serenade' was recorded in August '56, by which time, as you know, Paul and
Juliet had been locked up for two years. (The version on this disc is
definitely the same one on the soundtrack, except remastered.)
So: does anyone know if Mario had more than one stab at this track?
Anyone have a ML record collection, or parent with same, and could check
the dates? It's intriguing me, because Paul's novel was called 'The
Donkey Serenade', so she must have known and loved it. Either Mario
recorded another version earlier, or she knew it from the musical 'The
Firefly', I guess. Anyone know better?
Yours listening carefully to each little tune you play
Phil
--------------- MESSAGE heavenly-c.v001.n118.8 ---------------
From: shannon <9506148v@Magpie.Magill.UniSA.edu.au>
Subject: Re: Port Levy
Date: Thu, 12 Sep 1996 08:46:33 +0930
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT
GREER wrote,
>It also occured to me that, seeing as it's Easter, the water must have been
>really cold (spring is not v. warm here in NZ)!
Wouldn't it be autumn in NZ at Easter time? I know I'm being picky, but I just
thought that it was strange that someone from the S. Hemisphere could even
think of Easter as being during spring.
Anyway...
Shannon <9506148v@magpie.magill.unisa.edu.au>
'It's everyone else who's bonkers!'
--------------- MESSAGE heavenly-c.v001.n118.9 ---------------
From: Douglas J K <c9315678@alinga.newcastle.edu.au>
Subject: All things Pink
Date: Thu, 12 Sep 1996 13:38:44 +1000 (EST)
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII
I am constantly amazed at all of the Tori Amos references which keep
popping up. I was beginning to think I was her only fan (she isn't exactly
`big' in Australia). Must be that only certain people can appreciate her
genius.
(Always) was a Cornflake Girl.
Cheers from Kate D.
--------------- MESSAGE heavenly-c.v001.n118.10 ---------------
From: alicia@crafti.com.au
Subject: Re: All things Pink
Date: Thu, 12 Sep 1996 16:17:48 +1000 (EST)
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII
Content-Transfer-Encoding: QUOTED-PRINTABLE
You know, Tori Amos must be bigger than you think, Kate..=20
I too confess, I loved Cornflake Girl... as soon as someone told
me it was about two children being circumsized (listen closely to
the lyrics while keeping this in mind) I was even more addicted to the
songstress :)
> `big' in Australia). Must be that only certain people can appreciate her
> genius.
Another case of the "Heavenly Creatures Sydnrome"... seems it is happening
all round..
Love the effervescent Alicia.
(not quite a Cornflake Girl after all)
=09=09"As flies to wanton boys, are we to th=92 gods;
=09=09 They kill us for their sport."
=09=09=09=09King Lear
--------------- END heavenly-c.v001.n118 ---------------
From heavenly-c-errors@lists.best.com Thu Sep 12 15:05:57 1996
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Subject: Digest heavenly-c.v001.n119
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-------------- BEGIN heavenly-c.v001.n119 --------------
001 - Bao Ly <lybao@earthlink.n - Re: Weighed in the Balance
002 - Bao Ly <lybao@earthlink.n - Re: Weighed in the Balance
003 - adamabr@mail.helix.net (a - Re: Port Levy
004 - Thaiphong Vo <thaivo@ea.o - Re: Jackson's cameos
005 - Sandra Bowdler <sbowdler@ - Re: Weighed in the Balance
006 - Thaiphong Vo <thaivo@ea.o - Re: All things Pink
007 - Sandra Bowdler <sbowdler@ - Re: Jackson's cameos
008 - tinen@dorit.ihi.ku.dk (Ti - Re: HI EVERYBODY !
009 - 9506148v@Magpie.Magill.Un - Re: HI EVERYBODY !
010 - "Jefferson F. Morris" <jf - Re: Spiking Kate's chowder
--------------- MESSAGE heavenly-c.v001.n119.1 ---------------
From: Bao Ly <lybao@earthlink.net>
Subject: Re: Weighed in the Balance
Date: Thu, 12 Sep 1996 00:48:12 -0700
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
I think it's out and up $0.50, though I haven't actually purchase the
book. My public library carries EVERY SINGLE ONE of Anne Perry's books
(some on audiocassettes). 'Weighed in the Balance' is on order there,
waiting for me to ceased the cover. =
Weighed in the Balance
by Anne Perry, Fawcett, $23.00 (368 pp.) ISBN 0449910784 =
The byzantine politics and aristocratic squabbles of a small German
principality called Felzburg exasperate and puzzle William Monk in his
seventh distinctive appearance (after Cain His Brother). Monk, a
Victorian-era "agent of inquiry," is still haunted by a baffling
amnesia, and he feels that his associates--the rigidly proper barrister
Sir Oliver Rathbone and the uncompromising and outspoken nurse Hester
Latterly--have taken on more than they can handle when Sir Oliver
decides to defend Countess Zorah Rostova against a slander charge. The
patriotic Zorah has accused Princess Gisela of Felzburg of murdering her
husband, Prince Friedrich, heir to the throne, who presumably had died
as a result of a fall from a horse. Gisela is suing. The issue of
slander is almost lost in all the politicking. Gisela and Friedrich had
lived in English exile, Gisela having played a sort of Wallis Simpson
role to Friedrich's Edward. But Friedrich dreamed of returning
triumphant to Felzburg in order to defend the statelet's independence
against the unifying tide of Germany. Zorah's defense requires that Monk
polish his image, refine his abrasive nature and interview some devious,
scheming--and perhaps murderous--aristocrats. Was Friedrich poisoned?
Was Gisela the intended target? Who profits? Are personal or political
motives dominant? Perry indulges her characters in a bit too much =
unproductive speculation, but the novel springs to life in the courtroom =
scenes, where careful investigation and astute teamwork produce some =
astonishing revelations that presage the end of Victorian propriety and =
an era's pretense of innocence. Major ad/promo; Mystery Guild main =
selection; author tour.
=A9 1995 Publishers Weekly =
-- =
"We saw a gateway through the clouds." -lybao@earthlink.net
"Everything was full of peace and bliss."
--------------- MESSAGE heavenly-c.v001.n119.2 ---------------
From: Bao Ly <lybao@earthlink.net>
Subject: Re: Weighed in the Balance
Date: Thu, 12 Sep 1996 01:26:11 -0700
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
No, no--it's NOT out yet! The expected date of release is October 1,
1996. You can order at any of the following:
List Price is $23.00
Amazon.com (Price: $20.70)
http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ISBN%3D0449910784/0612-7800941-680961
Bookstack (Price: unavailable)
http://www.books.com/scripts/view.exe?isbn~0449910784
WordsworthWordsWorth (Price: 19.55)
http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ISBN%3D0449910784/0612-7800941-680961
--
"The end is everywhere: Art still has truth, take refuge there."
Matthew Arnold -lybao@earthlink.
--------------- MESSAGE heavenly-c.v001.n119.3 ---------------
From: adamabr@mail.helix.net (adam abrams)
Subject: Re: Port Levy
Date: Thu, 12 Sep 1996 01:38:55 -0800
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
>Does anyone else think that the "photographs" bit while the Hulmes and Paul
>are at Pt. Levy (just before the sandcastle) is just really cool?
I always wondered who took the one in which everyone (all the Hulmes and
Paul) appears! (Unless they had a timer...)
Adam
==========================================================================
Visit the "Fourth World" at http://www.helix.net/~adamabr/creatures.html
Then check out "Adam's World of Fun!" http://www.helix.net/~adamabr/awof
==========================================================================
--------------- MESSAGE heavenly-c.v001.n119.4 ---------------
From: Thaiphong Vo <thaivo@ea.oac.uci.edu>
Subject: Re: Jackson's cameos
Date: Thu, 12 Sep 1996 02:51:31 -0700 (PDT)
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII
> I remember when I saw that film. For some reason I couldn't quite
> believe that Jackson had played both of those parts. I just didn't see
> any resemblance between the bearded, zombie PJ, and "Derek."
I knew that he played Derek, but then suddenly Robert showed up... and I
was confused.. I thought he was one of Jackson's friends, because I
couldn't think of any reason why Jackson would go to so much trouble! To
play two parts is hard, but to be so completely different looking is even
more difficult. I think that part of the reason lied in the fact that
one of the main characters--Barry, I think--left near the middle of
filming. This is probably where Jackson was forced into another role. I think it
was Derek that he added later, since most of his scenes are where he'd alone.
I read in an interview with Jackson that a BT 2 was a very real
possibilty... : ) The return of Derek.
> It is rather fun to watch PJ wrestle himself in 'Bad Taste.' Reminds me
> of Divine's sexual self-assault in John Water's 'Female Trouble.' I
> wonder if PJ is a Waters afficionado?
There's one pan that especially impressed me, where Jackson is practicing
pediatry on his alien twin. It pans from the alien to Jackson, and I'd swear if
it wasn't him in both roles. Divine.. is that the man that played the
mother in "Hairspray"?
-Thai
----------------------------
"New Year's Resolution...Is a far more selfish one this year..
It is to make my motto, eat, drink and be merry... for tomorrow
you may be dead." - Pauline Parker 1954~
Melanie Lynskey: The One I Worship (http://www.best.com/~thaivo)
---------------------------
--------------- MESSAGE heavenly-c.v001.n119.5 ---------------
From: Sandra Bowdler <sbowdler@cyllene.uwa.edu.au>
Subject: Re: Weighed in the Balance
Date: Thu, 12 Sep 1996 17:57:41 +0800 (WST)
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII
Borovnia triumphans!
sb
ps. For a subtle HC allusion, see my review of Verdi's Falstaff on
OperaWeb, http://www.opera.it/English/OperaWeb.html
--------------- MESSAGE heavenly-c.v001.n119.6 ---------------
From: Thaiphong Vo <thaivo@ea.oac.uci.edu>
Subject: Re: All things Pink
Date: Thu, 12 Sep 1996 03:01:44 -0700 (PDT)
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII
> I am constantly amazed at all of the Tori Amos references which keep
> popping up. I was beginning to think I was her only fan (she isn't exactly
It's pretty off topic, but I've found that many of us are Tori fans.
I think she somewhat matches the quirky thoughtfulness of Heavenly
Creatures. "Great minds think alike... yet fools seldom differ." Hope
it's not the latter that applies here. : )
-Thai
----------------------------
"New Year's Resolution...Is a far more selfish one this year..
It is to make my motto, eat, drink and be merry... for tomorrow
you may be dead." - Pauline Parker 1954~
Melanie Lynskey: The One I Worship (http://www.best.com/~thaivo)
---------------------------
--------------- MESSAGE heavenly-c.v001.n119.7 ---------------
From: Sandra Bowdler <sbowdler@cyllene.uwa.edu.au>
Subject: Re: Jackson's cameos
Date: Thu, 12 Sep 1996 18:27:25 +0800 (WST)
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII
On Thu, 12 Sep 1996, Thaiphong Vo wrote:
> it wasn't him in both roles. Divine.. is that the man that played the
> mother in "Hairspray"?
>
Well, I know it's not Tori, but I can't let this opportunity go by to pass
on an anecdote concerning Spanish opera singer Montsaratt Caballe':
<<But then again, this is the same woman who after her appearance in SF
Opera's 1981 production of Semiramide, a critic stated
she looked like the drag star, Divine. Caballe and Kurt Herbert Adler
were being interviewed on a local classical station that same week, and
when Caballe was questioned how she found SF audiences, she answered, "I
love them, they think I'm Divine!" >>
sb
--------------- MESSAGE heavenly-c.v001.n119.8 ---------------
From: tinen@dorit.ihi.ku.dk (Tine Nielsen)
Subject: Re: HI EVERYBODY !
Date: Thu, 12 Sep 1996 12:38:14 +0200
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
Hi all,
>I think everybody one time or another have tried to show HC to others only
to >find out that others don't react the same way they do.
I actually showed the movie to a friend of mine, and she was very impressed
with it. I was a little wondering if she might like it, but she loved it,
tho she's not as excited about it as I am.
Oh I just heard Sense and Sensibility will be released on video to buy in
England in november.
Ciao,
Tine Nielsen, Denmark. email:tinen@dorit.ihi.ku.dk
***************************************************
I haven't lost what I can find in you baby
DGIF no. #11 521.
***************************************************
--------------- MESSAGE heavenly-c.v001.n119.9 ---------------
From: 9506148v@Magpie.Magill.UniSA.edu.au
Subject: Re: HI EVERYBODY !
Date: Thu, 12 Sep 1996 20:31:14 +0930
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT
> >I think everybody one time or another have tried to show HC to others only
> >find out that others don't react the same way they do.
> I actually showed the movie to a friend of mine, and she was very impressed
> with it. I was a little wondering if she might like it, but she loved it,
> tho she's not as excited about it as I am.
I watched it with my best friend and he said that if it wasn't my favourite
film, then it would probably be his (I think he figures it isn't worth the
effort to try to know so much about one film... he feels like he can't
'compete', or something to that effect).
Shannon <9506148v@magpie.magill.unisa.edu.au>
'It's everyone else who's bonkers!'
--------------- MESSAGE heavenly-c.v001.n119.10 ---------------
From: "Jefferson F. Morris" <jfmorris@CapAccess.org>
Subject: Re: Spiking Kate's chowder
Date: Thu, 12 Sep 1996 16:41:44 -0400 (EDT)
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII
On Wed, 11 Sep 1996, Phil West wrote:
> recently reported that the whole crew of the 'Titanic' went bonkers when
> someone spiked their lobster chowder with a hallucinogenic drug.
> 'Bloody' Bill Baxton (star of 'Twister') said: 'Some people were laughing,
> some people were crying and some people were throwing up'. No news of
> which category KW fell into, unfortunately. Perhaps she was singing.
Actually I have it on good authority (John Argentiero) that Ms. Winslet
was on another set at the time, and thus was unaffected.
--Jefferson
--------------- END heavenly-c.v001.n119 ---------------
From heavenly-c-errors@lists.best.com Thu Sep 12 22:31:23 1996
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Subject: Digest heavenly-c.v001.n120
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-------------- BEGIN heavenly-c.v001.n120 --------------
001 - "Jefferson F. Morris" <jf - Jackson's Divine cameos
002 - Phil West <pgw16@hermes.c - Soup and Sensibility
003 - Phil West <pgw16@hermes.c - Juliet & Juliet
004 - Douglas J K <c9315678@ali - Cornflake Girl....really?
005 - "Joanne Hickey" <jhickey@ - re:all things pink
006 - "Joanne Hickey" <jhickey@ - Bao Ly's name
007 - Tim Baglio <raven@nas.com - Re: Juliet & Juliet
008 - orson@CAM.ORG (Jean Gueri - Re: Jackson's Divine cameos
009 - Steven Fammatre <rotwiler - Re: Juliet & Juliet
010 - Steven Fammatre <rotwiler - Re: Jackson's Divine cameos
--------------- MESSAGE heavenly-c.v001.n120.1 ---------------
From: "Jefferson F. Morris" <jfmorris@CapAccess.org>
Subject: Jackson's Divine cameos
Date: Thu, 12 Sep 1996 16:49:20 -0400 (EDT)
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII
On Thu, 12 Sep 1996, Thaiphong Vo wrote:
> I read in an interview with Jackson that a BT 2 was a very real
> possibilty... : ) The return of Derek.
Well, I guess the guy is ripe for a triumphant return to earth, after
having been "bawn agin." BT2? He should only do that after he does "The
Return of the Feebles." And he should only do that after he makes the
jailbreak sequel to HC--"Heavenly Creatures 2: The Defiant Ones I Worship."
> Divine.. is that the man that played the
> mother in "Hairspray"?
Sure enough. He plays both the rapist and the victim in an early
scene from "Female Trouble." "Hairspray" was also a Waters film, although
it's from his moderate, toned-down phase. "Female Trouble" was from his
shock value period.
--Jefferson
--------------- MESSAGE heavenly-c.v001.n120.2 ---------------
From: Phil West <pgw16@hermes.cam.ac.uk>
Subject: Soup and Sensibility
Date: Thu, 12 Sep 1996 23:17:27 +0100 (BST)
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII
Tine wrote
> Oh I just heard Sense and Sensibility will be released on video to buy in
> England in november.
Yup, the ads started this week. I had thought it was already out. Oh
dear, perhaps I shouldn't admit this, but when I went to see S&S and HC as
a double bill (in that order) S&S dragged on for hours and hours and hours
and hours and hours... Quite liked it by itself... honest...
Secondly, Jefferson wrote:
> Actually I have it on good authority (John Argentiero) that Ms. Winslet
> was on another set at the time, and thus was unaffected.
Ah, you've ruined my visions!! [JFM - in 2 roles at once - is savagely
machine-gunned to death in slow-motion over credits. Cue Python theme.]
Phil
--------------- MESSAGE heavenly-c.v001.n120.3 ---------------
From: Phil West <pgw16@hermes.cam.ac.uk>
Subject: Juliet & Juliet
Date: Thu, 12 Sep 1996 23:41:54 +0100 (BST)
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII
Once more unto the breach, dear Creatures!
Like Juliet in HC, Shakespeare's Juliet is fond of popping out onto her
balcony at all manner of strange times. They also share the habit of
rambling on about the sea to their loved ones. Compare and contrast
Juliet's aria
Ho tante cose, che ti voglio dire
O una sola, ma grande come il mare
Come il mare, profunda ed infinita
with the following farewell from Juliet to Romeo:
My bounty is as boundlesse as the Sea,
My Loue as deep, the more I give to thee
The more I have, for both are Infinite: (II.2.131-3)
Odd, isn't it?
Phil
P.S. Against its will, I have now managed to Letterbox my TV with some
handy pieces of black card and a ruler - so I can have Full Frame AND
Letterboxed HC! It does work, but you need to turn the lights out...
--------------- MESSAGE heavenly-c.v001.n120.4 ---------------
From: Douglas J K <c9315678@alinga.newcastle.edu.au>
Subject: Cornflake Girl....really?
Date: Fri, 13 Sep 1996 11:07:10 +1000 (EST)
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII
Cornflake Girl...a song about circumcision? Someone told me that it was
about the fickleness and frailty of female friendships...when I listen to
the words, I apply this principle. Now i'll have to listen and re-think
the whole thing!
As for being `big' in Australia...I think that the Australian press and
interviewers have given her a hard time in the past. Also, she's only
really had one successful mainstream single (not that this really
matters)...Very seldom do I encounter anyone who is familiar with her
music....and "Boys for Pele" was on the discount CD rack within a month of
its release. This to me is difficult to comprehend...but as others have
said, it takes a certain genius to appreciate other genius.
I heard an ugly rumour that someone has `covered' Conflake Girl.
Blasphemy...say it isn't so!
Kate Douglas (perhaps not a Cornflake Girl after all).
--------------- MESSAGE heavenly-c.v001.n120.5 ---------------
From: "Joanne Hickey" <jhickey@hotmail.com>
Subject: re:all things pink
Date: Thu, 12 Sep 1996 17:01:46 -0700
Content-Type: text/plain
You know, it continually amazes me the amount of things that I am passionate
about that are mentioned on this list. They are far too numerous to mention,
but its kind of comforting to know that I'm not alone in many things. I guess
we really a rare a gathering of like minds.
Is anyone at all interested in the upcoming "Evita"? I always love something
set to music/stage/screen/print that is based on real events. I love to poke
and dig and find out the real facts. Eva Peron's life greatly interests me
(Did anyone know that Juan Peron used to keep Eva embalmed and perserved corpse
on his dining room table) Anyway I also love the musical Evita and am thrilled
that a movie is coming soon. I am not a big Madonna fan, but I beleive that
she is the most perfect person to play the part. She is like Eva in many ways.
My favorite (or at least one of) Tori Amos line is:
"so you found a girl who thinks really deep thoughts whats so amazing about
really deep thoughts boy you best pray that I bleed real soon hows that thought
for you"
and I love the way she sings
"those demigods with thier NINE-INCH nails and little facist panties tucked
inside the heart of every nice girl"
its harsh, but I love it
...wait this reminds me of...
"how strange, yet how pleasing"
- for those of you who are not Tori fans this is pre-Nine-inch Nails the band.
Joanne
"Its all frightfully romantic!"
---------------------------------------------------------
Get Your *Web-Based* Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com
---------------------------------------------------------
--------------- MESSAGE heavenly-c.v001.n120.6 ---------------
From: "Joanne Hickey" <jhickey@hotmail.com>
Subject: Bao Ly's name
Date: Thu, 12 Sep 1996 17:13:19 -0700
Content-Type: text/plain
Bao - have you ever considered going by the name Lybao? Every time I see that I
think what a cool name that would be!! (Not that you don't already have a cool
name.) Its especially cool when coupled with the word earthlink.
lybao@earthlink
When i look at this it makes me think of things....otherworldy - if you can
forgive the pouffiness of that statement.
Just a thought
Joanne
"Its all frightfully romantic!"
---------------------------------------------------------
Get Your *Web-Based* Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com
---------------------------------------------------------
--------------- MESSAGE heavenly-c.v001.n120.7 ---------------
From: Tim Baglio <raven@nas.com>
Subject: Re: Juliet & Juliet
Date: Wed, 11 Sep 1996 19:27:30 +0000 (GMT)
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII
> P.S. Against its will, I have now managed to Letterbox my TV with some
> handy pieces of black card and a ruler - so I can have Full Frame AND
> Letterboxed HC! It does work, but you need to turn the lights out...
I am assuming that you taped the card to the bottom and top of the tv so
it makes it thinner? The whole idea of letterboxing is that you get the
extra ammount of screen which is shown on the big screen but is cut off
on the tv, as they are not the same size... so... I am thinking that you
are just cutting out more space?
_______________________________________________
| |
| Tim Baglio http://www.nas.com/~raven/ |
| raven@nas.com Bellingham, WA |
|_______________________________________________|
--------------- MESSAGE heavenly-c.v001.n120.8 ---------------
From: orson@CAM.ORG (Jean Guerin)
Subject: Re: Jackson's Divine cameos
Date: Fri, 13 Sep 1996 00:35:32 -0400
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
>On Thu, 12 Sep 1996, Thaiphong Vo wrote:
>
>> I read in an interview with Jackson that a BT 2 was a very real
>> possibilty... : ) The return of Derek.
>
>Well, I guess the guy is ripe for a triumphant return to earth, after
>having been "bawn agin."
T'is true! Fran (Walsh) first mentionned it to me when I was on the set of
HC two years ago. The idea is to shoot the sequel on spare weekends, with
friends, for fun with literally no budget (just like the original).
However, with two kids, the expansion of W.E.T.A. (Jackson's FX house) and
Kong under way, it seems unlikely Peter will be having any spare weekends.
It took two years to do the first one.
A sequel to "Feebles" is unlikely since Peter originally planned it as a
half hour spoof but had japanese investors asking for more. He feels that
at 90 minutes, it becomes old.
A sequel to HC is definitely out of the question. You don't tamper with
perfection.
E. Jean Guerin
Film Critic /Journalist
(CBC Montreal's CityBeat, HOUR magazine,Cinefantastique)
Cult/Trash Cinema specialist
(CBC-Radio's Brave New Waves)
Actor
(_Heavenly Creatures_,_Frankenstein & Me_,_La Vengeance de la Femme en Noir_)
_____________________________________________________________________________
The critics rave!
"The Most Hideous Man Alive" -Kate Winslet, Academy Award Nominee
"Sexy Demon" -TIME Magazine.
______________________________________________________________________________
orson@cam.org
http://www.cam.org/~orson/index.html
==============================================================================
--------------- MESSAGE heavenly-c.v001.n120.9 ---------------
From: Steven Fammatre <rotwiler@uclink4.berkeley.edu>
Subject: Re: Juliet & Juliet
Date: Thu, 12 Sep 1996 21:48:09 -0700
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
Phil wrote:
>P.S. Against its will, I have now managed to Letterbox my TV with some
>handy pieces of black card and a ruler - so I can have Full Frame AND
>Letterboxed HC! It does work, but you need to turn the lights out...
I don't understand how this would be the letterboxed version...
Ciao
Steven Fammatre
P.S. Where is Mel Lynsky now? I thought I might have seen her in Los Angeles
at the Westside Pavillion in early/mid August...
--------------- MESSAGE heavenly-c.v001.n120.10 ---------------
From: Steven Fammatre <rotwiler@uclink4.berkeley.edu>
Subject: Re: Jackson's Divine cameos
Date: Thu, 12 Sep 1996 21:58:02 -0700
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
Jefferson wrote:
>And he should only do that after he makes the
>jailbreak sequel to HC--"Heavenly Creatures 2: The Defiant Ones I Worship."
Guess this would be a departure from historical fact...
But if Oliver Stone can exercise artistic license, why not PJ?
It could start out as a women-in-prison exploitation flick, with Mel and
Kate kicking ass and taking control of the prison gangs, and then breaking
out to exact revenge upon *everyone*. Of course, they'd also have some
sensitive scenes...
I'm sure Anne Perry would love a little revenge fantasy...
Ciao
Steven
--------------- END heavenly-c.v001.n120 ---------------
From heavenly-c-errors@lists.best.com Fri Sep 13 07:28:04 1996
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-------------- BEGIN heavenly-c.v001.n121 --------------
001 - Cerridwen <delirium@ariel - Re: All things Pink
002 - Lela Kaunitz <lelak@heale - Tangents
003 - Michaela Rhea Drapes <ole - Evita and Tori
004 - adamabr@mail.helix.net (a - Re: Digest heavenly-c.v001.n120
005 - adamabr@mail.helix.net (a - Heavenly Creatures - deleted scenes.
006 - Phil West <pgw16@hermes.c - Re: Juliet & Juliet
007 - 9506148v@Magpie.Magill.Un - Re: Heavenly Creatures - deleted scenes.
008 - yyancey1@ic3.ithaca.edu - Just Checking
009 - Michael Pellas <mpellas@s - Re: Evita and Tori
010 - "Joanne Hickey" <jhickey@ - Naming the T.V. show
--------------- MESSAGE heavenly-c.v001.n121.1 ---------------
From: Cerridwen <delirium@ariel.ucs.unimelb.EDU.AU>
Subject: Re: All things Pink
Date: Fri, 13 Sep 1996 15:10:37 +1000 (AEST)
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII
> (Always) was a Cornflake Girl.
I am another australia girl, unfortuantely a definate Raisin Girl.
Beenie lost the sunset, but that's okay,
Sal
Nothing can stop me now,
Cause I don't care anymore
Nothing can stop me now,
I just don't care.
http://ariel.ucs.unimelb.edu.au/~delirium
--------------- MESSAGE heavenly-c.v001.n121.2 ---------------
From: Lela Kaunitz <lelak@healey.com.au>
Subject: Tangents
Date: Fri, 13 Sep 1996 15:50:02 +1000 (GMT+1000)
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII
> > "You don't know the power you have with that tear in your hand."
>
> -I loved "Little Earthquakes" !
It's fascinating how Tori Amos manages to make her way into any list...
Lela
-----------------------------------------------------------------------
"you don't need my voice girl
you have your own"
- TORI AMOS, Bells For Her
------------------------------------------------------------------------
lelak@healey.com.au
http://www.healey.com.au/~lelak/doghouse.html
--------------- MESSAGE heavenly-c.v001.n121.3 ---------------
From: Michaela Rhea Drapes <oleanna@mail.utexas.edu>
Subject: Evita and Tori
Date: Fri, 13 Sep 1996 02:30:07 -0600
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
1) I for one can't wait for Evita--I'm a big fan and got freakin' orgasmic when
I saw the trailer in August. I don't think they could have put together a better
production team and cast...I so, like, cannot wait! (:
2)I am also a huge Tori fan--ever since I saw the video for Crucify on MTV the
week Little Earthquakes was released. I had a hell of a time finding the CD
back when she was a semi-nobody--but boy was it worth it... (: I am still
having trouble 'getting into' Boys for Pele--I'm still waiting for that moment
where I can say, "Wow...this CD has really grown on me..."
regards,
michaela
----
Michaela R. Drapes
oleanna@mail.utexas.edu michaela@cibola.net
http://www2.cibola.net/~michaela
"I'd just like to do roles that are different, challenging.
I'd rather do quality work than pack 'em in at the mall."
-Gwyneth Paltrow
---
--------------- MESSAGE heavenly-c.v001.n121.4 ---------------
From: adamabr@mail.helix.net (adam abrams)
Subject: Re: Digest heavenly-c.v001.n120
Date: Fri, 13 Sep 1996 01:35:00 -0800
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
>jailbreak sequel to HC--"Heavenly Creatures 2: The Defiant Ones I Worship."
Jefferson, you are truly inspired/insane!
This is obviously a cue for me to share my high-concept TV spinoff series idea:
Pauline and Juliet, having paid their debt to society, reunite under a
new identity and go into the detective business - all in the name of
research for the mystery novels that they publish under an assumed name.
With all their first-hand experience, tracking down killers is a breeze.
And whenever they're in a corner, they invoke their Borovnian friends -
Charles, who's always there with a word of sage advice - or Diello,
ever-ready to apply a well-timed swing of his sword.
As well, they have to dodge the advances of a cub reporter for the
Christchurch Enquirer - though he's "just a stupid boy" as far as they're
concerned, he's always a heartbeat away from discovering their true
identity!
Look for the Heavenly Action Figures (TM) - available wherever fine
products are sold.
All I need is a title... Jefferson? Anyone?
Adam
==========================================================================
Visit the "Fourth World" at http://www.helix.net/~adamabr/creatures.html
Then check out "Adam's World of Fun!" http://www.helix.net/~adamabr/awof
==========================================================================
--------------- MESSAGE heavenly-c.v001.n121.5 ---------------
From: adamabr@mail.helix.net (adam abrams)
Subject: Heavenly Creatures - deleted scenes.
Date: Fri, 13 Sep 1996 01:35:06 -0800
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
Fellow creatures!
I got a truly heavenly email today - from a Brendan Moore at the NZ Men's
clinic of all places - describing for me the differences btwn the NZ HC and
the other versions. It was full of surprises - although many of these
scenes are familiar to us FAQ-enlightened creatures, there were some that
were totally new to me and which I don't believe I've heard mention of
elsewhere! Read on..... (I have added a bit of commentary).
>Hi.
>Thought you might like a list of most scenes deleted from the Foreign print and
>their approximate timings.
>
>I have viewed both versions.
>
>Additional info: Heavenly Creatures opened wide in NZ on Friday October 14,
>1994. It had previously been shown as part of the Auckland International
>Film Festival in July/Aug 1994.
>
>Two scenes of the Avon River and Christchurch's cyclists are delted from the
>newsreel prologue (total time 49 seconds)
>
>The drive to Port Levy as the Hulmes and Pauline sing "How Much Is That
>Doggy In The Window". (40 seconds)
>
>Hilda Hulme refers to the girls as "my two daughters" outside the holiday home
>in Port Levy (not timed)
>
>Helicopter shot of Pauline pursuing Juliet over the hills (10 seconds)
>
>Sanitorium patient coughs bloody sputum into cup (2 seconds)
>
>Borovnian is more graphically cleft in two by castle gate (1 second)
(This is new!!! - Adam)
>
>After Juliet picks up the gem stone a shot is shown of the two girls dressed
>as princesses on a Borovnian balcony raising their chalices in a toast and then
>"morphing" into their clay-sculpted figurines before cutting to the shots of
>"brown" and "grey" eyes. Pauline's verse refers to watching "the race of men
>decay and change". (10 seconds)
(*** Morphin' mania! - Adam)
>
>The girls fantasize about love scenes with James Mason and Mel Ferrer after
>stealing the family silver. Juliets says they cansimply murder any odd wives
>that might get in their way. (26 seconds)
(*** Taken from the diaries again - Adam)
>
>A garden party at the Hulmes has Hilda and Bill Perry playing tennis as the
>girls roam the shrubbery consuming wine and grapes. They hurl a rock in the
>stream to soak Pauline's psychiatrists trousers. A flashback shows Hilda at
>dinner suggesting Bill stay with them to recuperate and Juliets romantic
>vision of his arrival by ambulance segues into drab reality as he is shown
>to the servants quarters. Before a disciplinary committee Mr Hulme is given
>until the end of the year to resign his post and is seen weeping alone in
>his armchair as Hilda and Bill's laughter is heard from another room while
>they continue their affair. (3 minutes 40 seconds)
(*** Hadn't heard that the last part actually appeared in any version. - Adam)
>
>Hilda, upon being caught in bed with Bill, insists she was merely bringing
>him a cup of tea (10 seconds)
>
>Pauline imagines her mother choking and her father impaling himself on a
>knife at the dinner table. (1 minute 24 seconds)
>
>The girls bedroom scene (A night with the saints) shows a banner S-I-N
>unfurling and later bursting forth with blood. Borvnian peasants cheer the
>girls on from outside the window. (10 seconds)
>
>Paulines final cry "NO" with her bloodied visage is seen in the final shot.
>The US version only features her cry on the soundtrack after fading to
>black. (3 seconds)
>
>Hope this is of interest.
>
>Regards
>Brendan Moore.
Great stuff! I will add a compendium of this and all the "57 versions" info
to the Heavenly FAQ over the weekend.
-Adam
==========================================================================
Visit the "Fourth World" at http://www.helix.net/~adamabr/creatures.html
Then check out "Adam's World of Fun!" http://www.helix.net/~adamabr/awof
==========================================================================
--------------- MESSAGE heavenly-c.v001.n121.6 ---------------
From: Phil West <pgw16@hermes.cam.ac.uk>
Subject: Re: Juliet & Juliet
Date: Fri, 13 Sep 1996 10:43:10 +0100 (BST)
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII
Tim and Steve wrote with extraordinary telepathy
> I am assuming that you taped the card to the bottom and top of the tv so
> it makes it thinner? The whole idea of letterboxing is that you get the
> extra amount of screen which is shown on the big screen but is cut off
> on the tv, as they are not the same size... so... I am thinking that you
> are just cutting out more space?
> Don't understand how this can be the letterboxed version.
OK, here goes. The British video release is the unmasked Full Frame
version, which actually has MORE visual information than the big screen
HC at the top and bottom. Covering this extra information up recreates
the appropriate 'narrow' picture as PJ intended - whether you do it with
card or mask it during video transfer.
Ah, but what about width-ways? Well, comparing the Full Frame video to
various letterbox screen grabs from HeavenlyWeb, I'm fairly certain that
all of the width is there, too. So I guess Full Frame does really mean
Full - everything that went into PJ's camera, including what was
essentially unwanted, extra stuff that was never destined for the big
screen.
Of course it's not perfect, but pity us British folk, for we have no
letterboxed video available and we've never even heard of laserdiscs.
Just call me Heath...
Phil
--------------- MESSAGE heavenly-c.v001.n121.7 ---------------
From: 9506148v@Magpie.Magill.UniSA.edu.au
Subject: Re: Heavenly Creatures - deleted scenes.
Date: Fri, 13 Sep 1996 20:45:39 +0930
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT
Thanks for all that info, Adam. But I'm wondering... whatever became of the
(alleged) scene with Juliet at a dinner party at Ilam, being forced to dance
with some dufus guy, and saying 'I wish Paul was here'? Was that scene ever
actually filmed, or was it only in the original script? I think (from
memory) that the scene includes Juliet exclaiming (much to the embarrassment
of her folks) that her breast is about to pop out of her dress. Does
anyone else know what became of this scene?
Shannon <9506148v@magpie.magill.unisa.edu.au>
'It's everyone else who's bonkers!'
--------------- MESSAGE heavenly-c.v001.n121.8 ---------------
From: yyancey1@ic3.ithaca.edu
Subject: Just Checking
Date: Fri, 13 Sep 1996 08:53:03 -0400 (EDT)
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT
>I think everybody one time or another have tried to show HC to others only
to >find out that others don't react the same way they do.
I went to go see HC w/ a friend and we both loved it. I love it a
little more than she does, though. When it came out on video I watched it
w/ my mother. She enjoyed it a lot, until it got to the second half, that
it. She doesn't at all understand why I'm so obsessed. She thinks it's
because I have some sort of matricide fantasy!
Anyway, does everyone know that there's more to the poem that
Pauline reads when Juliet gets out of the hospital than there is in the
movie? If everyone knows, don't bite my head off! I'm just asking.
Yani
--------------- MESSAGE heavenly-c.v001.n121.9 ---------------
From: Michael Pellas <mpellas@sgi.net>
Subject: Re: Evita and Tori
Date: Fri, 13 Sep 1996 10:14:41 -0400
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
2)I am also a huge Tori fan--ever since I saw the video for Crucify on MTV the
week Little Earthquakes was released. I had a hell of a time finding the CD
back when she was a semi-nobody--but boy was it worth it... (: I am still
having trouble 'getting into' Boys for Pele--I'm still waiting for that moment
where I can say, "Wow...this CD has really grown on me..."
>I actually saw Tori them but didn't think much of her...until I saw the
video for "God". After I bought "Under The pink" I was hooked...I bout
"Little Earthquakes" and a few B-sides. It is actually the same wasy I got
back into HC. I saw it at a coffee house movie theater here in Pittsburgh,
but didn't devote enough of my attention to it. Then, I rented it here
about 3 months ago, actually watched the entire movie, and was in love...
The rest is history,
Michael
"I'll buy my ticket to the universal opera"
--------------- MESSAGE heavenly-c.v001.n121.10 ---------------
From: "Joanne Hickey" <jhickey@hotmail.com>
Subject: Naming the T.V. show
Date: Fri, 13 Sep 1996 04:20:49 -0700
Content-Type: text/plain
>All I need is a title... Jefferson? Anyone?
"Charles' Angels"
"Highway to Heven"
Pretty good eh!
-"Thats so impressive!"
-"Why thank you, there's more where that came from my adored Deborah."
Joanne
"Its all frightfully romantic!"
---------------------------------------------------------
Get Your *Web-Based* Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com
---------------------------------------------------------
--------------- END heavenly-c.v001.n121 ---------------
From heavenly-c-errors@lists.best.com Fri Sep 13 16:39:40 1996
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Subject: Digest heavenly-c.v001.n122
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-------------- BEGIN heavenly-c.v001.n122 --------------
001 - Donald Chin <donaldc@nets - Re:Heavenly Creatures - deleted scenes.
002 - Bao Ly <lybao@earthlink.n - Re: my name?
003 - Bao Ly <lybao@earthlink.n - Romeo & Juliet
004 - orson@CAM.ORG (Jean Gueri - Re: Heavenly Creatures - deleted scenes.
005 - "Jefferson F. Morris" <jf - Re: Heavenly Creatures - deleted scenes.
006 - "Jefferson F. Morris" <jf - Sensory Derangement and Sensibility
007 - Phil West <pgw16@hermes.c - Re: Just checking
008 - orson@CAM.ORG (Jean Gueri - Re: Behind the scenes: The Frighteners
009 - orson@CAM.ORG (Jean Gueri - Re: Heavenly Creatures - deleted scenes.
010 - alicia@crafti.com.au - Re: my name?
--------------- MESSAGE heavenly-c.v001.n122.1 ---------------
From: Donald Chin <donaldc@netspace.net.au>
Subject: Re:Heavenly Creatures - deleted scenes.
Date: Sat, 14 Sep 1996 01:02:15 +1000
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
Hi all,
A great thanks to Brendan and Adam who presented all that wonderful info
about the deleted scenes.
adamabr@mail.helix.net (adam abrams) wrote...
> >Hilda, upon being caught in bed with Bill, insists she was merely bringing
> >him a cup of tea (10 seconds)
That scene is in the UK and Australian version, but not the US one.
Shannon (9506148v@Magpie.Magill.UniSA.edu.au) wrote...
> Subject: Re: Heavenly Creatures - deleted scenes.
> Thanks for all that info, Adam. But I'm wondering... whatever became of the
> (alleged) scene with Juliet at a dinner party at Ilam, being forced to dance
> with some dufus guy, and saying 'I wish Paul was here'? Was that scene ever
> actually filmed, or was it only in the original script? I think (from
> memory) that the scene includes Juliet exclaiming (much to the embarrassment
> of her folks) that her breast is about to pop out of her dress. Does
> anyone else know what became of this scene?
I also would like to know if this ever made it to film. That picture of
Kate in the Cinema Papers (on Bryan's page) has her in that spaghetti
dress, so the scene must have got further than the screenplay page. The guy
also appears in the credits I think.
Regards, Donald
--
Donald Chin <donaldc@netspace.net.au>
"Lost somewhere in Australia...
and fanatical about Heavenly Creatures and Jane Austen!"
<http://netspace.net.au/~donaldc>
--------------- MESSAGE heavenly-c.v001.n122.2 ---------------
From: Bao Ly <lybao@earthlink.net>
Subject: Re: my name?
Date: Fri, 13 Sep 1996 10:54:17 -0700
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On Thu, 12 Sep 1996, Joanne Hickey asked the darnest question:
> Bao - have you ever considered going by the name Lybao?
....What?! No. I've met someone whose name was Ly Bao...though I think
the spelling was Li, because that's the feminine version of it--sort of
like James and Jamie.
I think Bryan Woodworth has the coolest email and Web address. While I
would kill to get an account at "666.org" or "borovnia.org"!!!
--
"Innocence. Imagination. Obsession."
lybao@earthink.net
I'll suck out every last drop from your swimming pool
And gnaw on the faucets in the kitchen.
I'll climb up four flights of stairs
Just to fall off the roof.
I'll burn my tongue on the light bulb
While watching the water boil over on the stove.
I'll hang from the ceiling
To watch my blood lay on the floor.
--------------- MESSAGE heavenly-c.v001.n122.3 ---------------
From: Bao Ly <lybao@earthlink.net>
Subject: Romeo & Juliet
Date: Fri, 13 Sep 1996 11:09:21 -0700
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I sometimes see HC as a love story, much like 'Romeo and Juliet': "It's
a story about how the power of a great love can transcend obstacles."
To be together, Romeo and Juliet must transcend death, whereas Pauline
and Juliet must commit matricide. The endings are both very tragic,
considering the protagonists of both R&J and HC will eventually be
separated forever. Can we compare Pauline and Juliet to such archetypal
characters such as Romeo and Juliet?
--
"We saw a gateway through the clouds." -lybao@earthlink.net
"Everything was full of peace and bliss."
> Ah, you've ruined my visions!! ... Someone has spiked Kate Winslet!
> ... No, not Diello, or even Charles.
No, no, no... ("Ask Deborah, and what she said would be right.")
--------------- MESSAGE heavenly-c.v001.n122.4 ---------------
From: orson@CAM.ORG (Jean Guerin)
Subject: Re: Heavenly Creatures - deleted scenes.
Date: Fri, 13 Sep 1996 16:06:58 -0400
MIME-Version: 1.0
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>Thanks for all that info, Adam. But I'm wondering... whatever became of the
>(alleged) scene with Juliet at a dinner party at Ilam, being forced to dance
>with some dufus guy, and saying 'I wish Paul was here'? Was that scene ever
>actually filmed, or was it only in the original script? I think (from
>memory) that the scene includes Juliet exclaiming (much to the embarrassment
>of her folks) that her breast is about to pop out of her dress. Does
>anyone else know what became of this scene?
>
>Shannon <9506148v@magpie.magill.unisa.edu.au>
>
> 'It's everyone else who's bonkers!'
That scene was in the scropt I read when I was down there. It was shot
(I've seen stills of it in Pierre Vinet's darkroom). I expected to see it
in the NZ cut but it wasn't there so I asked Fran about it. She said that
during editing it became clear that "Pauline was the motor of the film and
they decided to go with her".
As written it was a great scene of Dr. Hulme forcing men on Juliet and of
her intimidating them with the very sexuality they wanted to prey upon.
However, I must agree that it would've fitted awkwardly into the finished
film. Perhaps if Miramax lets Peter do his Criterion LD boxed set it could
be included as an extra chapter.
E. Jean Guerin
Film Critic /Journalist
(CBC Montreal's CityBeat, HOUR magazine,Cinefantastique)
Cult/Trash Cinema specialist
(CBC-Radio's Brave New Waves)
Actor
(_Heavenly Creatures_,_Frankenstein & Me_,_La Vengeance de la Femme en Noir_)
_____________________________________________________________________________
The critics rave!
"The Most Hideous Man Alive" -Kate Winslet, Academy Award Nominee
"Sexy Demon" -TIME Magazine.
______________________________________________________________________________
orson@cam.org
http://www.cam.org/~orson/index.html
==============================================================================
--------------- MESSAGE heavenly-c.v001.n122.5 ---------------
From: "Jefferson F. Morris" <jfmorris@CapAccess.org>
Subject: Re: Heavenly Creatures - deleted scenes.
Date: Fri, 13 Sep 1996 16:59:33 -0400 (EDT)
MIME-Version: 1.0
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On Fri, 13 Sep 1996, Jean Guerin wrote:
> Perhaps if Miramax lets Peter do his Criterion LD boxed set it could
> be included as an extra chapter.
Omigosh. Is this just conjecture, or does Mr. Jackson actually want to
do a Criterion set? The film literally screams to be given the full
treatment on disc. And Adam's recent post about the full NZ version has
really gotten to me--I want to see all this excised stuff!
Which is not to say that it has to be re-instated into the film.
Obviously, the movie should be seen however Mr. Jackson wants it to be
seen. But as you point out, deleted scenes would make nice supplementary
material.
Which version is his favorite, by the way? It was my impression that the
trimming he had to do for the American release didn't bother him too
much. Does he prefer this "tighter" version?
--Jefferson
--------------- MESSAGE heavenly-c.v001.n122.6 ---------------
From: "Jefferson F. Morris" <jfmorris@CapAccess.org>
Subject: Sensory Derangement and Sensibility
Date: Fri, 13 Sep 1996 17:05:37 -0400 (EDT)
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On Thu, 12 Sep 1996, Phil West wrote:
> > Actually I have it on good authority (John Argentiero) that Ms. Winslet
> > was on another set at the time, and thus was unaffected.
> Ah, you've ruined my visions!!
Sorry. Personally, I'd rather see the whole crew rolling on MDMA. But
that would be a pretty expensive prank.
> [JFM - in 2 roles at once - is savagely
> machine-gunned to death in slow-motion over credits. Cue Python theme.]
Pretty strong MEAT there from (sniff) Phil West.
--Jefferson
--------------- MESSAGE heavenly-c.v001.n122.7 ---------------
From: Phil West <pgw16@hermes.cam.ac.uk>
Subject: Re: Just checking
Date: Fri, 13 Sep 1996 22:13:07 +0100 (BST)
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII
Hi all, Yani
Yani wrote
> Anyway, does everyone know that there's more to the poem that
> Pauline reads when Juliet gets out of the hospital than there is in the
> movie? If everyone knows, don't bite my head off! I'm just asking.
Ah, my favourite thing, that poem. It was *very* interesting to learn
from Adam's post (thanks Adam, you're a gem) that other parts of the poem
were included in the longer NZ cut. I've always wondered if they'd done
it all. Deborah may have become a novelist, but Gina was already a poet,
however briefly, aged 15. Simply astonishing. Print it out and stick it
to your fridge, if you haven't already.
I can feel another poetry lecture coming on. You have been warned.
Ever,
Phil
--------------- MESSAGE heavenly-c.v001.n122.8 ---------------
From: orson@CAM.ORG (Jean Guerin)
Subject: Re: Behind the scenes: The Frighteners
Date: Fri, 13 Sep 1996 18:34:45 -0400
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>Phil
>
>P.S. On the credits for HC, there's a listing for 'video diary'. Cue Mr.
>Rieper: 'What's thet?' (I'm dreaming it's someone employed to go round
>filming the filming for a future 'making-of' programme. Someone disabuse
>me of this notion...)
There was a camcorder chronicling the shoot. Peter was nice enough to
present me with a VHS of all my behind the scenes stuff. (When I get around
to getting someone who can do "frame grabs" from it I may put some of them
on my webpage.
Don't hold your breath thoug...I'm swamped.
E. Jean Guerin
Film Critic /Journalist
(CBC Montreal's CityBeat, HOUR magazine,Cinefantastique)
Cult/Trash Cinema specialist
(CBC-Radio's Brave New Waves)
Actor
(_Heavenly Creatures_,_Frankenstein & Me_,_La Vengeance de la Femme en Noir_)
_____________________________________________________________________________
The critics rave!
"The Most Hideous Man Alive" -Kate Winslet, Academy Award Nominee
"Sexy Demon" -TIME Magazine.
______________________________________________________________________________
orson@cam.org
http://www.cam.org/~orson/index.html
==============================================================================
--------------- MESSAGE heavenly-c.v001.n122.9 ---------------
From: orson@CAM.ORG (Jean Guerin)
Subject: Re: Heavenly Creatures - deleted scenes.
Date: Fri, 13 Sep 1996 18:46:36 -0400
MIME-Version: 1.0
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> Is this just conjecture, or does Mr. Jackson actually want to
>do a Criterion set?
It had been discussed between Miramax and jackson as a possibility when
they cut his film down. However, this promise seems to have gone forgotten
by Miramax.
>Which version is his favorite, by the way?
Not for me to say. However Fran was a bit (negatively) verbal about it when
I asked her.
>It was my impression that the
>trimming he had to do for the American release didn't bother him too
>much.
What is he supposed to say? Here's a hint: In FORGOTTEN SILVER, there is a
hilarious moment when Harvey "Scissorhands" Weinstein (the head of Miramax)
declares that Colin McKenzie (the ficticious filmmaker profiled in this
"Mockumentary") "would have benn happy with the hour we cut out of his epic
"Salome".
> Does he prefer this "tighter" version?
Would any parent like a trimmed version of their child?
E. Jean Guerin
Film Critic /Journalist
(CBC Montreal's CityBeat, HOUR magazine,Cinefantastique)
Cult/Trash Cinema specialist
(CBC-Radio's Brave New Waves)
Actor
(_Heavenly Creatures_,_Frankenstein & Me_,_La Vengeance de la Femme en Noir_)
_____________________________________________________________________________
The critics rave!
"The Most Hideous Man Alive" -Kate Winslet, Academy Award Nominee
"Sexy Demon" -TIME Magazine.
______________________________________________________________________________
orson@cam.org
http://www.cam.org/~orson/index.html
==============================================================================
--------------- MESSAGE heavenly-c.v001.n122.10 ---------------
From: alicia@crafti.com.au
Subject: Re: my name?
Date: Sat, 14 Sep 1996 09:06:36 +1000 (EST)
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I know I'm off topic again.. please forgive me oh ye followers of Heavenly
Creatures...
On Fri, 13 Sep 1996, Bao Ly wrote:
(re Bao Ly's name.. I really never thought about it, but you're right
Joanne...
>=20
> I think Bryan Woodworth has the coolest email and Web address. While I
> would kill to get an account at "666.org" or "borovnia.org"!!!=20
Wouldn't we all. I know it sounds rather cruel but I would go to
horrifically extreme lengths for one...=20
Whilst avoiding the gory details, I am terrifically jealous.. I'm sure a
lot of ppl on here would give their right arm.. or perhaps their mother
for one...
Alicia Cook.
=09=09"As flies to wanton boys, are we to th=92 gods;
=09=09 They kill us for their sport."
=09=09=09=09King Lear
--------------- END heavenly-c.v001.n122 ---------------
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-------------- BEGIN heavenly-c.v001.n123 --------------
001 - alicia@crafti.com.au - Romeo & Juliet = Pauline & Juliet??
002 - Bao Ly <lybao@earthlink.n - Forgotten Silver
003 - Bao Ly <lybao@earthlink.n - Re: Romeo & Juliet = Pauline & Juliet??
004 - Alicia Cook <alicia@craft - Re: Romeo & Juliet = Pauline & Juliet??
005 - 9506148v@Magpie.Magill.Un - Re: Heavenly Creatures - deleted
scenes.
006 - 9506148v@Magpie.Magill.Un - Re: Romeo & Juliet
007 - John Argentiero <jargent@ - Upcoming HC Theatrical Showing
008 - Bao Ly <lybao@earthlink.n - Re: Upcoming HC Theatrical Showing
--------------- MESSAGE heavenly-c.v001.n123.1 ---------------
From: alicia@crafti.com.au
Subject: Romeo & Juliet = Pauline & Juliet??
Date: Sat, 14 Sep 1996 09:26:47 +1000 (EST)
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On Fri, 13 Sep 1996, Bao Ly wrote:
Ok.. I realise I am setpping in here with all my schoolgirl-ish ideas on
Romeo & Juliet.. but it's one of those things that keeps popping up all
over the place in discussion..
> I sometimes see HC as a love story, much like 'Romeo and Juliet': "It's=
=20
> a story about how the power of a great love can transcend obstacles."=20
This is true.. and both HC and R&J can be considered tragedies, (now I
won't get into what makes a tragedy a tragedy, but ultimately the hero and
heroine doesn't get a happy ending.) <-- not completely correct, but you
should get the idea I am trying to infer.
> To be together, Romeo and Juliet must transcend death, whereas Pauline=20
> and Juliet must commit matricide. The endings are both very tragic,
> considering the protagonists of both R&J and HC will eventually be
> separated forever. Can we compare Pauline and Juliet to such archetypal=
=20
> characters such as Romeo and Juliet?=20
Personally, HC really touched me right at the end.. I had managed the
survive the whole movie without crying there, and the screen flashed=20
"It was a condition of their release that they never meet again."..=20
that was the end of me..like a big horrible dagger had just been shoved in
your stomach and there was nothing you could do about it.. That seemed to
be such an injustice.
There was that irony, that Pauline and Juliet made that huge sacrifice to
over come the hurdle that was keeping them apart.. and still, could never
be together again.
I think it was becuase there was such an electricity between them that I
was really upset by the ending..But parallels like this can be seen in
Shakespeare's work...(I am not a shakepeare freak btw, my sig is just
something I stumbled across)=20
Likewise, In Romeo and Juliet, there is that element that this couple were
meant to be together.. Basically Shakespeare was making a pretty shrewd
comment about destiny.
I think it's reasonable to say that parallels can be seen in HC (in terms
of the whole concept of fulfilling your destiny)..But in terms of
characterisations it would be rather rash to say they are comparable.
I mean, to even be able to compare R&J to HC is pushing it.. there are a
few common elements but I truly believe what makes HC so fantastic is it's
originality and freshness. Romeo and Juliet is one of those love stories
we see repeated freqeuntly... I sure as hell haven't heard nor seen of
another "Pauliene or Juliet" but maybe I'm living in a time warp??=20
And I wouldn't hesitate to say that Paul and Jules are "star-crossed
lovers"...So Bao, compare as much as you want.. keeping in mind that
Shakespeare addressed slightly different themes to Peter Jackson.. or
did he?
I await your comments.
Alicia Cook.
=09=09"As flies to wanton boys, are we to th=92 gods;
=09=09 They kill us for their sport."
=09=09=09=09King Lear
--------------- MESSAGE heavenly-c.v001.n123.2 ---------------
From: Bao Ly <lybao@earthlink.net>
Subject: Forgotten Silver
Date: Fri, 13 Sep 1996 17:32:19 -0700
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I first heard that FS was aired in NZ as a television documentary of
supposedly the late, great Kiwi film-maker Colin McKenzie with
'astonishing revelations of early NZ cinema.' All this was the work of
good fiction, Peter Jackson, and co-writer Costa Botes, of course.
I've later read that Miramax was looking for an international
distributor and that Pandora has acquired all rights in Europe, Latin
America, the Middle East and Africa, leaving only North American and
Asian rights to sell--New Zealand Film Commission marketing director
Lindsay Shelton announced this.
Jean Guerin had told us that FS was screened recently at the Montreal
film festival (in addition, The Frighteners and Chicken). I was just
wondering if the rights for American and Asian distribution has been
bought yet? And is FS expected to be release in theaters anytime soon?
--
"Innocence. Imagination. Obsession."
lybao@earthink.net
Historical film discovery
Steven Mintz, U. Houston (SMintz@UH.EDU)
Sun, 29 Oct 1995 05:30:59 -0600
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From: IN%"a.soutar@auckland.ac.nz" 29-OCT-1995 05:05:48.38
This note is written late on the night of 29 October and our family -
enthusiastic film readers and watchers is still stunned, so if my tale
is confused, forgive me. We have just watched a documentary on national
television made and hosted by Peter Jackson (Heavenly Creatures,
Braindead, Bad Taste, Meet the Feebles) which was screened with little
or no pre-screening hype, about Colin McKenzie.
Did any LIST readers know of this New Zealander? We didn't and
small-town-like, we thought we had at least an awareness of the
country's part in film history. But apparently not. Colin McKenzie was a
film maker. He started making films in 1900, as a 12 year old. He used
bicycle parts to crank the camera, and the family farm tractor to
steam drive the projector. He experimented then used egg albumin and
boiled flax to make his own film stock - and made his father so mad by
stealing 2000 eggs (it was there in the newspaper) that all his
equipment was smashed - except his camera, hidden by his mother. Do you
believe me?
There's more, as you script writers say. He shot footage of a pre-Wright
brothers flight, proving at last a NZers legend. He invented a
synch-sound recorder. He used a Tahitian plant material to make coloured
film stock. He built an enormous set in the back country to film a
version of Salome - during 1915 - 1920 amid amazing tales of huge
financial deals, international espionage that is too complicated to
detail here. The first close up. There was a lot more - Leonard Maltin
narrated a lot of the historical material and Sam Neill appeared too. I
am, as I said quite bewildered that all this has been discovered in our
own backyard, and in such amazing detail. Here in New Zealand we are all
saying,"Has anyone heard of Colin McKenzie?" By the way he also filmed
his own death - but perhaps I should take a leaf out of Jackson's book
and leave you to see that for yourselves in the doco which is called
"Forgotten Silver". But please lets know your reaction.
You heard it here first...
Next message: Steven Mintz, U. Houston: "Query: Leni Riefenstahl"
Previous message: Steven Mintz, U. Houston: "Re: Maori Film"
--------------- MESSAGE heavenly-c.v001.n123.3 ---------------
From: Bao Ly <lybao@earthlink.net>
Subject: Re: Romeo & Juliet = Pauline & Juliet??
Date: Fri, 13 Sep 1996 17:42:17 -0700
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Ahh, come on...I have homework. Must messages be address to 'moa' all of
a sudden? I'm sure Phil West or Jefferson Morris would love a WHACK at
this one?
--
Sweets to the sweet: farewell!
Act V. Sc. 1, Hamlet -lybao@earthlink.net
Inscription for the
Ceiling of a Bedroom
Daily dawns another day;
I must up, to make my way.
Though I dress and drink and eat,
Move my fingers and my feet,
Learn a little, here and there,
Weep and laugh and sweat and swear,
Hear a song, or watch a stage,
Leave some words upon a page,
Claim a foe, or hail a friend -
Bed awaits me at the end.
Though I go in pride and strength,
I'll come back to bed at length.
Though I walk in blinded woe,
Back to bed I'm bound to go.
High my heart, or bowed my head,
All my days but lead to bed.
Up, and out, and on; and then
Ever back to bed again,
Summer, Winter, Spring, and Fall -
I'm a fool to rise at all!
-Dorothy Parker
--------------- MESSAGE heavenly-c.v001.n123.4 ---------------
From: Alicia Cook <alicia@crafti.com.au>
Subject: Re: Romeo & Juliet = Pauline & Juliet??
Date: Sat, 14 Sep 1996 14:52:57 +1000 (EST)
MIME-Version: 1.0
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On Fri, 13 Sep 1996, Bao Ly wrote:
> Ahh, come on...I have homework. Must messages be address to 'moa' all of
> a sudden? I'm sure Phil West or Jefferson Morris would love a WHACK at
> this one?=20
Bao, didn't anyone tell you?? Homework is always neglected and it's all
the fault of the internet... Teacher's don't understand that one yet, but
give them a little while..
But if you don't want to argue this one out with me, I'm sure someone
will.. come on there is half the world subscribed to this mailling list,
surely someone disagrees with what I said!!!
Alicia...
=09=09"As flies to wanton boys, are we to th=92 gods;
=09=09 They kill us for their sport."
=09=09=09=09King Lear
--------------- MESSAGE heavenly-c.v001.n123.5 ---------------
From: 9506148v@Magpie.Magill.UniSA.edu.au
Subject: Re: Heavenly Creatures - deleted scenes.
Date: Sat, 14 Sep 1996 23:01:08 +0930
MIME-Version: 1.0
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> > Does he prefer this "tighter" version?
> Would any parent like a trimmed version of their child?
Um... actually, I think mine would. They'd prefer the subdued version.
Shannon <9506148v@magpie.magill.unisa.edu.au>
'It's everyone else who's bonkers!'
--------------- MESSAGE heavenly-c.v001.n123.6 ---------------
From: 9506148v@Magpie.Magill.UniSA.edu.au
Subject: Re: Romeo & Juliet
Date: Sat, 14 Sep 1996 23:08:29 +0930
MIME-Version: 1.0
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On Fri, 13 Sep 1996, Bao Ly wrote:
> Can we compare Pauline and Juliet to such archetypal
> characters such as Romeo and Juliet?
Well... there is that scene on the balcony...
Shannon <9506148v@magpie.magill.unisa.edu.au>
'It's everyone else who's bonkers!'
--------------- MESSAGE heavenly-c.v001.n123.7 ---------------
From: John Argentiero <jargent@wam.umd.edu>
Subject: Upcoming HC Theatrical Showing
Date: Sat, 14 Sep 1996 11:43:37 -0400 (EDT)
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII
Hey again folks.
This is probably only of interest to those of you in the Washington DC
Metro Area (is that just me and Jefferson?), but coming next month, on
October 29 and November 1, 1996, Heavenly Creatures will be showing at
the Hoff Theater in the Stamp Student Union at the University of Maryland
at College Park. Shows are at 5 P.M. and go for $1.
I'm the homey that picks the films for our theater and I finally got the
ok to show HC since we're showing the Frighteners the same week for a sort
of Halloween special.
If you want more info on say, where to buy tickets if you're on another
continent or something, or what Metro stop to use if you are in the area,
just email me.
BTW, does anyone else know of other repertory theaters showing it or who
have shown it? I know George Mason Univeristy showed it last year, but
they have cooler programming freedom than I do.
Well, I digress, just wanted to alert interested parties.
Oooh, and I'm going to try and steal the trailer and MAYBE some posters.
Of course, to the highest bidder... *evil grin*
Tata, ye of spare time,
John Argentiero
jargent@wam.umd.edu
--------------- MESSAGE heavenly-c.v001.n123.8 ---------------
From: Bao Ly <lybao@earthlink.net>
Subject: Re: Upcoming HC Theatrical Showing
Date: Sat, 14 Sep 1996 12:33:08 -0700
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
Hello Tori whatevers, packers, and gels--
> Oooh, and I'm going to try and steal the trailer and MAYBE some posters.
> Of course, to the highest bidder... *evil grin*
Are you serious?
Please bear in mind I still have to upload some of this stuff to your
page John -- Here's my bid for the trailer:
- 1 autograph photo of Kate Winslet (not on your site)
- 1 photograph of Kate Winslet (not on your site)
- 1 US HC poster (folded but in mint condition)
- 13 AVI clips of S&S + 65 stills of S&S
- 33 video grabs of 'A Kid in King Authur's Court'
- & anything else I plan to upload in the future but forgot!
**********
Other merchandise for 'packers' to look out for:
- S&S Press Kit
- S&S Screenplay
- S&S Audiobook read by Kate Winslet
- Frighteners posters, caps, & T-shirts
- Hamlet poster (on order)
- Jude poster (on order)
If anyone has the France HC poster (I have small picture of this that is
not on HeavenlyWeb) and want to trade for US poster or whatever, let me
know.
--
"Making music is another way of making children."
Friedrich Nietzche -lybao@earthlink.net
Making the art's the easy part;
Just the start of it.
Gettting it up there,
That's the art of it.
Got to buy the canvas and the
Slide-projectors
Have to pay the actors and the
Sound technicians
Have to rent the lighting and the
synthesizors
Have to keep 'em glowing.
Got to keep 'em growing.
Have to keep 'em humming, Hmmm
Have to make a splash or no commission.
And without commissions, no exposure.
And with no exposure, no one knows your
Even in the running.
And you're back to slumming
Have to keep 'em humming.
Hmmmm.
Sondheim anyone?
--------------- END heavenly-c.v001.n123 ---------------
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Subject: Digest heavenly-c.v001.n124
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-------------- BEGIN heavenly-c.v001.n124 --------------
001 - "Chris Black" <qleap@inte - Re: Upcoming HC Theatrical Showing
002 - trustno1@ra.isisnet.com ( - HC
003 - RICHARD MUNDIE <rmundie@e - Everyone'll think he's peed himself!
004 - 9506148v@Magpie.Magill.Un - Re: Everyone'll think he's peed
himself!
005 - 9506148v@Magpie.Magill.Un - Re: Everyone'll think he's peed
himself!
006 - Michael Pellas <mpellas@s - my life is complete
007 - RICHARD MUNDIE <rmundie@e - Ugh-worst case scenario for Melanie
Lynskey
008 - yyancey1@ic3.ithaca.edu - Please forgive my ignorance
009 - Steven Fammatre <rotwiler - Re: Ugh-worst case scenario for Melanie
Lynskey
--------------- MESSAGE heavenly-c.v001.n124.1 ---------------
From: "Chris Black" <qleap@interl.net>
Subject: Re: Upcoming HC Theatrical Showing
Date: Sat, 14 Sep 1996 19:17:31 +0000
John,
Hmm, could you email the ticket info and direction info? I may try to
make a trip to DC.
And please, don't tease about being able to get an HC poster, I've
been searching EVERYWHERE and have yet been able to find one. *sigh*
--Chris
--------------- MESSAGE heavenly-c.v001.n124.2 ---------------
From: trustno1@ra.isisnet.com (Gina)
Subject: HC
Date: Sat, 14 Sep 1996 21:26:01 -0300 (ADT)
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
hiya all,
just wondering if anyone knows how i can purchase my own Heavenly Creatures
poster. is there anywhere i can order or something cause i want it bad :)
i wish i lived in DC, id go to the showing in a min but alas im stuck in
the small province of NB canada where everyone is small minded and are
idiots. im so happy to finally talk to people who have taste and understand
a good film.
*Gina*
who knows everyone else HERE is bonkers ;)
just having thoughts of marianne,...quickest girl
in the frying pan...
~tori~
--------------- MESSAGE heavenly-c.v001.n124.3 ---------------
From: RICHARD MUNDIE <rmundie@es.co.nz>
Subject: Everyone'll think he's peed himself!
Date: Sun, 15 Sep 96 13:29 GMT+1200
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
I know that for those of you who haven't seen the NZ cut of Heavenly
Creatures it's very cruel to go on about it, but for those who have, I would
definitely say that two of the film's best lines are there.
1)Paul's deliciously gleeful "everyone'll think he's peed himself!" (about
the doctor)
and
2)Juliet's "Hallo!" aimed at Bloody Bill Perry's back when he arrives at
Ilam (sadly in very good health).
Wonderful!
GREER
--------------- MESSAGE heavenly-c.v001.n124.4 ---------------
From: 9506148v@Magpie.Magill.UniSA.edu.au
Subject: Re: Everyone'll think he's peed himself!
Date: Sun, 15 Sep 1996 14:26:51 +0930
MIME-Version: 1.0
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On Sun, 15 Sep 1996, RICHARD MUNDIE wrote:
> I know that for those of you who haven't seen the NZ cut of Heavenly
> Creatures it's very cruel to go on about it, but for those who have, I would
> definitely say that two of the film's best lines are there.
>
> 1)Paul's deliciously gleeful "everyone'll think he's peed himself!" (about
> the doctor)
> and
> 2)Juliet's "Hallo!" aimed at Bloody Bill Perry's back when he arrives at
> Ilam (sadly in very good health).
Fortunately, these are in the Australian version... so there! You're right,
though. That 'Hallo!' to Bill Perry is hilarious.
Shannon <9506148v@magpie.magill.unisa.edu.au>
'It's everyone else who's bonkers!'
--------------- MESSAGE heavenly-c.v001.n124.5 ---------------
From: 9506148v@Magpie.Magill.UniSA.edu.au
Subject: Re: Everyone'll think he's peed himself!
Date: Sun, 15 Sep 1996 14:29:57 +0930
MIME-Version: 1.0
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On Sun, 15 Sep 1996, RICHARD MUNDIE wrote:
> I know that for those of you who haven't seen the NZ cut of Heavenly
> Creatures it's very cruel to go on about it
How about if you offer to make copies of it for us? Then we wouldn't mind
you going on about it so much... :-)
Shannon <9506148v@magpie.magill.unisa.edu.au>
'It's everyone else who's bonkers!'
--------------- MESSAGE heavenly-c.v001.n124.6 ---------------
From: Michael Pellas <mpellas@sgi.net>
Subject: my life is complete
Date: Sun, 15 Sep 1996 02:03:41 -0400
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
To all the Tori philes I know are out there...
I actually got to meet her tonight...
She was absolutley personable. I got a pic taken...but I don't have a
scanner. Sorry!
Now if I can only get a copy of that extended HC version...what else would
be left in life?
yours,
Michael
"We laughed in the faces of kings,
never offering to burn"
--------------- MESSAGE heavenly-c.v001.n124.7 ---------------
From: RICHARD MUNDIE <rmundie@es.co.nz>
Subject: Ugh-worst case scenario for Melanie Lynskey
Date: Sun, 15 Sep 96 19:31 GMT+1200
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
Yuck! Yuck! Shudder!
For all those New Zealanders out there, a terrible thought just came into my
head. Okay, less of a thought, more of a NIGHTMARE.
Melanie Lynskey appearing on Shortland Street. At any time, in any guise.
God forbid, as my grandmother would say.
I think I'll go lie down- I'm feeling quite faint now.
GREER
--------------- MESSAGE heavenly-c.v001.n124.8 ---------------
From: yyancey1@ic3.ithaca.edu
Subject: Please forgive my ignorance
Date: Sun, 15 Sep 1996 17:19:42 -0400 (EDT)
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Hello all. Hi, Phil.
Phil wrote:
"Ah, my favourite thing, that poem. It was *very* interesting to learn
from Adam's post (thanks Adam, you're a gem) that other parts of the poem
were included in the longer NZ cut. I've always wondered if they'd done
it all. Deborah may have become a novelist, but Gina was already a poet,
however briefly, aged 15. Simply astonishing. Print it out and stick it
to your fridge, if you haven't already.
I can feel another poetry lecture coming on. You have been warned."
Thanks for the warning. I found it in some tawdry little crime
encyclopedia. It has an awful tabloidy write-up on Pauline and Juliet in
it. But at least it has a few good pictures, the poem, and some diary
excerpts.
Yani
--------------- MESSAGE heavenly-c.v001.n124.9 ---------------
From: Steven Fammatre <rotwiler@uclink4.berkeley.edu>
Subject: Re: Ugh-worst case scenario for Melanie Lynskey
Date: Sun, 15 Sep 1996 14:27:29 -0700
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
someone:
>Melanie Lynskey appearing on Shortland Street. At any time, in any guise.
>God forbid, as my grandmother would say.
What the hell is this?
Ciao kiddies...
Steve
--------------- END heavenly-c.v001.n124 ---------------
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Subject: Digest heavenly-c.v001.n125
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-------------- BEGIN heavenly-c.v001.n125 --------------
001 - RICHARD MUNDIE <rmundie@e - PRINCE WHO?
002 - Jean Guerin <orson@CAM.OR - Re: PRINCE WHO?
003 - Steven Fammatre <rotwiler - Re: PRINCE WHO?
004 - 9506148v@Magpie.Magill.Un - Re: PRINCE WHO?
005 - Bao Ly <lybao@earthlink.n - Re: PRINCE WHO?
006 - tinen@dorit.ihi.ku.dk (Ti - Odd title translations and other
things.
007 - adamabr@mail.helix.net (a - Happy B-Day Kate
008 - Phil West <pgw16@hermes.c - Re: Ugh-worst case scenario for Mel
009 - Donald Chin <donaldc@nets - Re: Upcoming HC Theatrical Showing
010 - B&B APCO LIBRARY <LIB-APC - HC POSTER
--------------- MESSAGE heavenly-c.v001.n125.1 ---------------
From: RICHARD MUNDIE <rmundie@es.co.nz>
Subject: PRINCE WHO?
Date: Mon, 16 Sep 96 14:13 GMT+1200
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
This has been bugging me for quite a long time. What is Jonsie's alter ego's
name in the scene where Pauline first visits Ilam- Prince Ganymede or Prince
Runnymeade? I've seen both these names used at different sites, so I was
wondering if there's anyone out there who actually knows for sure who the
evil prince really is (apart from a record-smashing, sandcastle-mushing,
age-lying, halfway-through-the-movie-disappearing little brat).
BTW, is Jonsie in the car when they return from Port Levy? I've never
actually noticed him (too busy looking at P&J's blissful and Hilda's rather
less blissful faces).
GREER
--------------- MESSAGE heavenly-c.v001.n125.2 ---------------
From: Jean Guerin <orson@CAM.ORG>
Subject: Re: PRINCE WHO?
Date: Sun, 15 Sep 1996 23:06:09 -0400
MIME-Version: 1.0
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> Prince Ganymede or Prince Runnymeade?
Runnymeade
BTW, are we getting a bit too obsessive about pernicious details? There
are a few times I begin to identify with ol' Bill Shatner on that
infamous SNL sketch- Especially that one where it was suggested I show
up "in full Orson regalia" to kiss fans at a HC convention in
Christchurch.
Running a HC conference in Christchurch is like holding a Manson
convention and asking Roman Polanski to be president of honour- please
be understanding of this. Even while HC was being shot, there was great
care in not making any waves that would alarm the locals. HC didn't do
too well in Christchurch.
Also, to people who have expressed interest in the wearabouts of
Pauline: Please follow PJ's lead and respect her wish for privacy.
Remember that PJ also knew about Anne Perry and respected her wish for
anonimity. It was she who went public with it- and only after some snoop
journalist threatened to expose her. If you feel any sympathy for the
girls, you will respect their need to go on with their lives.
Just venting,
Jean G
--------------- MESSAGE heavenly-c.v001.n125.3 ---------------
From: Steven Fammatre <rotwiler@uclink4.berkeley.edu>
Subject: Re: PRINCE WHO?
Date: Sun, 15 Sep 1996 22:40:27 -0700
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
That guy who played Orson Welles wrote:
>Running a HC conference in Christchurch is like holding a Manson
>convention and asking Roman Polanski to be president of honour
Or like going to an Anne Perry book signing and asking her to sign a copy of
HC, as a friend of mine suggested we do for some *major* tasteless points...
...but we're not *that* tasteless...
...but we do love Braindead...and Bad Taste...and Meet the Feebles....
Ciao
Steven Fammatre
--------------- MESSAGE heavenly-c.v001.n125.4 ---------------
From: 9506148v@Magpie.Magill.UniSA.edu.au
Subject: Re: PRINCE WHO?
Date: Mon, 16 Sep 1996 15:48:41 +0930
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On Sun, 15 Sep 1996, Jean Guerin wrote:
> Also, to people who have expressed interest in the wearabouts of
> Pauline: Please follow PJ's lead and respect her wish for privacy.
> Remember that PJ also knew about Anne Perry and respected her wish for
> anonimity. It was she who went public with it- and only after some snoop
> journalist threatened to expose her. If you feel any sympathy for the
> girls, you will respect their need to go on with their lives.
I don't think any of us want to track her down. Or am I mistaken? I know
that *I* certainly don't want to go looking for her, and I would not have
believed that anyone else on the list would have wanted to either. However,
even though a HC convention of any kind will (in all reality) be unlikely to
go ahead, surely it would have less of an impact on Christchurch than the
filming of HC itself. I mean... a small group of people wandering about
town and checking out a few of the sites? What's the big deal? We wouldn't
be wearing 'I love P&J' t-shirts or re-enacting scenes of Borovnian carnage
in the streets...
Shannon <9506148v@magpie.magill.unisa.edu.au>
'It's everyone else who's bonkers!'
--------------- MESSAGE heavenly-c.v001.n125.5 ---------------
From: Bao Ly <lybao@earthlink.net>
Subject: Re: PRINCE WHO?
Date: Mon, 16 Sep 1996 00:00:19 -0700
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
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Jean Guerin wrote:
>
> > Prince Ganymede or Prince Runnymeade?
>
> Runnymeade
This is true in the screenplay and movie (if I recall correctly), but in
the FAQ John Porter had it Ganymede. Could John Porter be wrong all this
time and nobody caught it??
--
"Hell is a city much like London." -lybao@earthlink.net
Percy Bysshe Shelley _Peter Bell the Third,_ Pt. iii, l,I
Don't be too hard us poor fans, Jean Guerin.
> BTW, are we getting a bit too obsessive about pernicious details? There
> are a few times I begin to identify with ol' Bill Shatner on that
> infamous SNL sketch- Especially that one where it was suggested I show
> up "in full Orson regalia" to kiss fans at a HC convention in
> Christchurch.
>
> Running a HC conference in Christchurch is like holding a Manson
> convention and asking Roman Polanski to be president of honour- please
> be understanding of this. Even while HC was being shot, there was great
> care in not making any waves that would alarm the locals. HC didn't do
> too well in Christchurch.
>
> Also, to people who have expressed interest in the wearabouts of
> Pauline: Please follow PJ's lead and respect her wish for privacy.
> Remember that PJ also knew about Anne Perry and respected her wish for
> anonimity. It was she who went public with it- and only after some snoop
> journalist threatened to expose her. If you feel any sympathy for the
> girls, you will respect their need to go on with their lives.
>
> Just venting,
>
> Jean G
--------------- MESSAGE heavenly-c.v001.n125.6 ---------------
From: tinen@dorit.ihi.ku.dk (Tine Nielsen)
Subject: Odd title translations and other things.
Date: Mon, 16 Sep 1996 09:03:24 +0200
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
Hiya fellow creatures,
Well, I got some informational news: HC opens in Sweden this friday, and got
great reviews in all the Swedish film programmes. In the first it got rated
"Masterpiece" with 5 out of 5 stars! In the second it got four out of five
stars. GREAT GREAT GREAT !!!
My big worry is that I've seen two shows naming Kate and both programmes had
wrong info on her.
1)MTV said in a clip from Jude"Kate Winslet won great reviews from her
performance in S&S AND an OSCAR " WRONG!!!
>I wish it was so, with the Oscar, it was highly unfair! Tho Mira Sorvino
does do a good job in Mighty Afrodite, she's nowhere near Kate.
2)A Swedish show said yesterday about Kate in HC "Kate Winslet best known
for her role in Pride and prejudice! ARGHHHHHH!!!
>Erm, P&P is great, but hey come on.....
And something I've been very amused with is the title translations of HC.
In Sweden it's called "Svarta Anglar" meaning "Black Angels", and here
(Denmark) it was called "Engel min Engel" meaning "Angel my Angel",
meanwhile in France they went for the directly translated thing "Creatures
Celestes".
Does anybody else know about any wacky title translations ????
Ciao,
Is love a fancy or a feeling ? or a Ferrars ??
Tine Nielsen, Denmark. email:tinen@dorit.ihi.ku.dk
*********************************************************
I haven't lost what I can find in you baby -Debbie Gibson
DGIF no. #11 521.
"Only the best people fight against all obstacles in
persuit of happiness" Heavenly Creatures.
*********************************************************
--------------- MESSAGE heavenly-c.v001.n125.7 ---------------
From: adamabr@mail.helix.net (adam abrams)
Subject: Happy B-Day Kate
Date: Mon, 16 Sep 1996 01:37:20 -0800
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
Hi all,
Well, Kate's birthday is less than 3 weeks away. If we are going to send
Kate just _one_ card (a pretty good idea, which I think Joanne Hickey first
proposed), we ought to do it soon.
Shall we all post a message to the group this week to be included in the
card, and have someone (Joanne?) transcribe them and mail them off with a
covering note and a card?
Adam
==========================================================================
Visit the "Fourth World" at http://www.helix.net/~adamabr/creatures.html
Then check out "Adam's World of Fun!" http://www.helix.net/~adamabr/awof
==========================================================================
--------------- MESSAGE heavenly-c.v001.n125.8 ---------------
From: Phil West <pgw16@hermes.cam.ac.uk>
Subject: Re: Ugh-worst case scenario for Mel
Date: Mon, 16 Sep 1996 09:49:49 +0100 (BST)
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII
Greer had an unpleasant dream and Steve wondered what it was:
> Melanie Lynskey appearing on Shortland Street. At any time, in any guise.
> God forbid, as my grandmother would say.
>
> I think I'll go lie down- I'm feeling quite faint now.
>
> GREER
Greer, what a terrible thought! Hope you're feeling better now. For
those who are lucky enough not to know, Shortland Street is the most
hideous NZ hospital soap alive. I think we can all relax, however. One
glare from Mel L. and the cardboard sets would just crumble and burn...
Ever,
Phil
--------------- MESSAGE heavenly-c.v001.n125.9 ---------------
From: Donald Chin <donaldc@netspace.net.au>
Subject: Re: Upcoming HC Theatrical Showing
Date: Mon, 16 Sep 1996 20:59:13 +1000
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
Hi all,
Just a reminder for Australian (in particular, Melbourne) list members,
Heavenly Creatures is showing on the 11 October, at the Astor.
Regards, Donald
--
Donald Chin <donaldc@netspace.net.au>
"Lost somewhere in Australia...
and fanatical about Heavenly Creatures and Jane Austen!"
<http://netspace.net.au/~donaldc>
--------------- MESSAGE heavenly-c.v001.n125.10 ---------------
From: B&B APCO LIBRARY <LIB-APCO@balch.com>
Subject: HC POSTER
Date: Mon, 16 Sep 1996 08:31:51 -0600
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain
Content-Disposition: inline
Hello All,
I don't know if this helps anyone, but there is a poster shop in
Dallas I went to that carried the HC poster (U.S. version) for $15,
and it wasn't folded or rolled.
I'm stuck here in Alabama, but my sister lives in Dallas. If anyone
is interested, I can ask her for the address of the poster shop so
you guys can order a poster, or if the poster is still there, maybe I
can bribe her to buy it. She's a huge HC fan too. I would have bought
it when I was there, but as always I had no money whatsoever. :(
Later,
Pam
lib-apco@balch.com
--------------- END heavenly-c.v001.n125 ---------------
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Date: Mon, 16 Sep 1996 23:46:26 -0700
Subject: Digest heavenly-c.v001.n126
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-------------- BEGIN heavenly-c.v001.n126 --------------
001 - nmarth@spatial.maine.edu - how do I get out of digest mode?
002 - tinen@dorit.ihi.ku.dk (Ti - NZ reaction
003 - Michael Pellas <mpellas@s - Re: HC POSTER
004 - "Jefferson F. Morris" <jf - Re: Romeo & Juliet
005 - "Jefferson F. Morris" <jf - Re: PRINCE WHO?
006 - Michael Pellas <mpellas@s - Re: PRINCE WHO?
007 - Michael Pellas <mpellas@s - appreciation is a beautiful thing
008 - Bao Ly <lybao@earthlink.n - Re: Happy B-Day Kate
009 - Ameyumi@aol.com - Kate's Birthday- my consent
010 - tinen@dorit.ihi.ku.dk (Ti - Matricide
--------------- MESSAGE heavenly-c.v001.n126.1 ---------------
From: nmarth@spatial.maine.edu (Nancy Marth)
Subject: how do I get out of digest mode?
Date: Mon, 16 Sep 1996 09:37:45 -0500
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
OK, I had a change of email address so I had to unsubscribe, then
re-subscribe to the list. I'm now automatically in digest mode where I get
all emails for a certain period at one time and don't have any list
directions on how to get out of it.
Help!
Thanks--
Nancy
--------------- MESSAGE heavenly-c.v001.n126.2 ---------------
From: tinen@dorit.ihi.ku.dk (Tine Nielsen)
Subject: NZ reaction
Date: Mon, 16 Sep 1996 15:33:25 +0200
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
Hi,
Erm I don't know if this has been up before but, as it seems there are quite
a few people from NZ here I was wondering what the general reception of HC
was down there. Were people shocked ? or what ?
Ciao,
Tine Nielsen, Denmark. email:tinen@dorit.ihi.ku.dk
*********************************************************
I haven't lost what I can find in you baby -Debbie Gibson
DGIF no. #11 521.
"Only the best people fight against all obstacles in
persuit of happiness" Heavenly Creatures.
*********************************************************
--------------- MESSAGE heavenly-c.v001.n126.3 ---------------
From: Michael Pellas <mpellas@sgi.net>
Subject: Re: HC POSTER
Date: Mon, 16 Sep 1996 10:16:19 -0400
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
I don't know if this helps anyone, but there is a poster shop in
Dallas I went to that carried the HC poster (U.S. version) for $15,
and it wasn't folded or rolled.
I'm stuck here in Alabama, but my sister lives in Dallas. If anyone
is interested, I can ask her for the address of the poster shop so
you guys can order a poster, or if the poster is still there, maybe I
can bribe her to buy it. She's a huge HC fan too. I would have bought
it when I was there, but as always I had no money whatsoever. :(
>Yes if you would please, I'm sure a lot of HC whatevers would be
interested...myself included.
We'd better decide B-day card or no B-day card soon...
Michael
"I've got the anti-christ in the kitchen yelling at me again..."
--------------- MESSAGE heavenly-c.v001.n126.4 ---------------
From: "Jefferson F. Morris" <jfmorris@CapAccess.org>
Subject: Re: Romeo & Juliet
Date: Mon, 16 Sep 1996 14:59:05 -0400 (EDT)
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII
On Fri, 13 Sep 1996, Bao Ly wrote:
> Can we compare Pauline and Juliet to such archetypal
> characters such as Romeo and Juliet?
I think we can, in that fate and circumstance are conspiring against
them. I'm thinking particularly of the class distinctions that are so
important to their relationship. Without dissolving into tired
class-warfare rhetoric, Paul and Juliet's respective families are almost
like feuding clans. There's a thinly-veiled antipathy between them.
It's a bit different though, in that R&J didn't give a damn what families
they were from. They loved each other immediately and that was it. But
for P&J, the class distinction isn't so irrelevant. In fact it's quite
important to Paul. In fact, by the end of the film, Juliet herself
almost seems irrelevant, as Pauline has withdrawn almost entirely into
her own upwardly mobile fantasies. This explains the distancing between the
two characters in the final scenes that some people have remarked upon.
--Jefferson
--------------- MESSAGE heavenly-c.v001.n126.5 ---------------
From: "Jefferson F. Morris" <jfmorris@CapAccess.org>
Subject: Re: PRINCE WHO?
Date: Mon, 16 Sep 1996 15:03:43 -0400 (EDT)
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII
On Sun, 15 Sep 1996, Jean Guerin wrote:
> Also, to people who have expressed interest in the wearabouts of
> Pauline: Please follow PJ's lead and respect her wish for privacy.
Point well taken, although to my knowledge, no one on this list has ever
suggested trying to track her down. And I've been on this list
from the beginning.
Speaking personally, I have little interest in the real lives of anyone
involved. I just dig the movie.
--Jefferson
--------------- MESSAGE heavenly-c.v001.n126.6 ---------------
From: Michael Pellas <mpellas@sgi.net>
Subject: Re: PRINCE WHO?
Date: Mon, 16 Sep 1996 18:09:15 -0400
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
On Sun, 15 Sep 1996, Jean Guerin wrote:
> Also, to people who have expressed interest in the wearabouts of
> Pauline: Please follow PJ's lead and respect her wish for privacy.
Point well taken, although to my knowledge, no one on this list has ever
suggested trying to track her down. And I've been on this list
from the beginning.
>Out of curiosity...when did it start?
Michael
"They say confucius does his crossword with a pen..."
--------------- MESSAGE heavenly-c.v001.n126.7 ---------------
From: Michael Pellas <mpellas@sgi.net>
Subject: appreciation is a beautiful thing
Date: Mon, 16 Sep 1996 18:43:21 -0400
MIME-Version: 1.0
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To all Hopeful for the Kate Winslet B-day project,
I just listened to the .wav of her reaction to the page, and had "a
brainwave"...
It was so nice to hear that she, at least it seems like it, appreciates her
fan base. Adding that to meeting Miss Tori Amos this weekend and I have to
realize. Stars aren't all the stereotype offers...some actually appreciate
us.
This really has no point, I guess, just in the light of the proposed B-day
project and all...I guess I had to put two cents and a little venting in...
yours always...
Michael
--------------- MESSAGE heavenly-c.v001.n126.8 ---------------
From: Bao Ly <lybao@earthlink.net>
Subject: Re: Happy B-Day Kate
Date: Mon, 16 Sep 1996 17:45:08 -0700
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
adam abrams wrote:
> Hi all,
>
> Well, Kate's birthday is less than 3 weeks away. If we are going to send
> Kate just _one_ card (a pretty good idea, which I think Joanne Hickey first
> proposed), we ought to do it soon.
>
> Shall we all post a message to the group this week to be included in the
> card, and have someone (Joanne?) transcribe them and mail them off with a
> covering note and a card?
I agree. If we are to send one letter and with a single card--it should
start this minute!
We need someone to write a letter to Kate Winslet on the list's behalf.
As usual, I nominate Jefferson Morris and/or Phil West. :-)
Anyone on the list who consent with the idea: A "Happy 21st Birthday"
card and letter to Kate Winslet on Oct 5, 1996, should post a message
to the list stating that he or she wants to be a part of it. This way
we can get everyone's name to place it at the end of our letter we're
sending to Kate Winslet with the single birthday card. Those who do
not want to be a part of this plan--shall be cast away to Borovnia
where Diello will yield the axe himself--do not have to be part of it.
I *urge* everyone to start posting their 'consents' with the go-ahead
plan this minute and be counted for! Perhaps under the subject title:
'Kate Winslet's Birthday'; message could be something like "Happy
Birthday Kate," <your name>
Here's how it goes:
1. Someone needs to write a tear-jerking letter to Kate Winslet--any
volunteer???
2. Those who wants to be a part of this plan should start posting their
messages to the list right away!
3. Someone needs to keep track of all the names to be put on the letter.
4. Someone needs to choose the perfect card!!!
5. Someone needs to deliver the letter and the card to Kate Winslet!
Please bear in mind we need to do this quickly and depending on the
number of enthusiastic responses we get--your vote/response/post will
determine whether we go ahead and do this or cancel the plan
completely....
Let the postings begin!!!
?
<lybao@earthlink.net>
John Argentiero had taught me to do this:
--
Kate Kate Kate Kate Kate Kate Kate Kate Kate Kate Kate Kate Kate Kate
Kate Kate Kate Kate Kate Kate Kate Kate Kate Kate Kate Kate Kate Kate
Kate Kate Kate Kate Kate Kate Kate Kate Kate Kate Kate Kate Kate Kate
Kate Kate Kate Kate Kate Kate Kate Kate Kate Kate Kate Kate Kate Kate
Kate Kate Kate Kate Kate Kate Kate Kate Kate Kate Kate Kate Kate Kate
Kate Kate Kate Kate Kate Kate Kate Kate Kate Kate Kate Kate Kate Kate
Kate Kate Kate Kate Kate Kate Kate Kate Kate Kate Kate Kate Kate Kate
Kate Kate Kate Kate Kate Kate Kate Kate Kate Kate Kate Kate Kate Kate
Kate Kate Kate Kate Kate Kate Kate Kate Kate Kate Kate Kate Kate Kate
Kate Kate Kate Kate Kate Kate Kate Kate Kate Kate Kate Kate Kate Kate
Kate Kate Kate Kate Kate Kate Kate Kate Kate Kate Kate Kate Kate Kate
Kate Kate Kate Kate Kate Kate Kate Kate Kate Kate Kate Kate Kate Kate
Gooooo Kate!!!!
--------------- MESSAGE heavenly-c.v001.n126.9 ---------------
From: Ameyumi@aol.com
Subject: Kate's Birthday- my consent
Date: Tue, 17 Sep 1996 00:18:31 -0400
Happy Birthday. Hope it's a great one.
Lisa Johnson
--------------- MESSAGE heavenly-c.v001.n126.10 ---------------
From: tinen@dorit.ihi.ku.dk (Tine Nielsen)
Subject: Matricide
Date: Tue, 17 Sep 1996 08:44:46 +0200
MIME-Version: 1.0
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Hi Creatures,
I don't remember who, but somebody wrote, that he had seen HC with his
mother and the latter had not understood why he was so obsessed with it,
thinking maybe he had a matricide wish. Erm it's funny because when I told
my mom what the movie was about and that I was so looking forward to seeing
it, she told me," Now don't you get any ideas" (for fun that is)...
Do other mothers feel threatened ????
- Doris Day ??
- I think she's really talented !
Ciao,
--------------- END heavenly-c.v001.n126 ---------------
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From: bryanw@borovnia.666.org (Bryan Woodworth)
To: b@666.org
Subject: 127
Date: Thu, 03 Oct 1996 03:01:04 GMT
Organization: "Heavenly Creatures" Fan Club
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-------------- BEGIN heavenly-c.v001.n127 --------------
001 - Phil West <pgw16@hermes.c - Re: Romeo and Juliet
002 - Alicia Cook <alicia@craft - Re: Romeo and Juliet
003 - RICHARD MUNDIE <rmundie@e - Matricide
004 - "Jefferson F. Morris" <jf - B-Day Wishes
005 - B&B APCO LIBRARY <LIB-APC - B-Day Wishes -Reply
006 - Michael Pellas <mpellas@s - Re: B-Day Wishes
007 - Bao Ly <lybao@earthlink.n - Re: B-Day Wishes
008 - B&B APCO LIBRARY <LIB-APC - RE: ADDRESS FOR POSTER SHOP
009 - trustno1@ra.isisnet.com ( - Happy B-day Kate
010 - Bao Ly <lybao@earthlink.n - S&S Multimedia OLE!
--------------- MESSAGE heavenly-c.v001.n127.1 ---------------
From: Phil West <pgw16@hermes.cam.ac.uk>
Subject: Re: Romeo and Juliet
Date: Tue, 17 Sep 1996 10:36:20 +0100 (BST)
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII
Further to Jefferson's astute comments on R&J
> I'm thinking particularly of the class distinctions that are so
> important to their relationship. Without dissolving into tired
> class-warfare rhetoric, Paul and Juliet's respective families are almost
> like feuding clans. There's a thinly-veiled antipathy between them.
Particularly noticeable when Honora answers the door to Dr. Hulme - she's
immediately on the defensive in case he's about to accuse her family of
sponging off his ('all those nights she stays over...'). As I appear to
be the only Brit on this list (honourable mention for Kate D.), perhaps
I'll add my own experience of class antipathy. When I came to Cambridge
(Henry's old Uni), I had an enormous working-class chip on my shoulder for
years about anyone with money or privilege. It was just an instinctive
reaction, and was hard to fight down, because it had its equivalent in
their reaction to me. My friends and I would sit in the corner of the
college bar and glare at the public school kids (once, notably, listing
ways of doing them all in, very much a la Paul & Juliet.)
> It's a bit different though, in that R&J didn't give a damn what families
> they were from. They loved each other immediately and that was it.
Amusing, though, that Romeo's first love Rosaline (who he moons on about
for the first few scenes), is also a Capulet. It's almost as if R. were
looking for trouble.
Similarities between HC & R&J aren't very surprising, I guess (there's
even a mention of roses in Juliet's cheeks, or their absence, at one
point, ho ho). 'Antony and Cleopatra' also has some relevance - the idea
of fatal attraction and the abandonment of duty, decorum and ultimately
everything for love's sake. And the Sonnets, too, for their superb
discussion of the meaning of friendship and love - not to mention the
homoerotic element... (S&S fans take note, sonnet 116 is addressed to
another man).
But HC's tragedy isn't really a Shakespearian one. The killing always
reminds me of the horrific farces of Euripidean killings (eg. Electra),
where the protagonists suddenly realise what a dreadful thing they're
doing, all too late. For what happens when the buckles and clasps of
family life and polite society burst, HC reminds me most of Strindberg,
where normal relationships are revealed as unbearably twisted, normal
people all fundamentally loopy (The Dance of Death, Miss Julie, The Ghost
Sonata).
What *is* Shakespearian about HC is simply how good it is.
Ever,
Phil
--------------- MESSAGE heavenly-c.v001.n127.2 ---------------
From: Alicia Cook <alicia@crafti.com.au>
Subject: Re: Romeo and Juliet
Date: Tue, 17 Sep 1996 20:18:15 +1000 (EST)
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII
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Just to pick holes;
I know that in Australian society today we are gradually seeing the class
distinctions blur..I mean, in my opinion it is nearly impossible to define
the working class from the middle class and *distinctly* do so.
I realise that in the time of Paul and Jules there were more class
distinctions, but I am just wondering how distinct these classes were
evenn 30 years ago.
It occours to me that praps PJ was adding a sense of drama to this ->
<snip>
Particularly noticeable when Honora answers the door to Dr. Hulme - she's
immediately on the defensive in case he's about to accuse her family of
sponging off his ('all those nights she stays over...'). As I appear to
Or were there class distinctions between Paul's family and that of Jules?
I really doubt there is a Kiwi on the list who can clearly remember the
event of the time and is willing to tell me what the story is..
But if you are, please don't hesitate to throw your two cents worth in.
Just being picky ;)
Alicia.
=09=09"As flies to wanton boys, are we to th=92 gods;
=09=09 They kill us for their sport."
=09=09=09=09King Lear
--------------- MESSAGE heavenly-c.v001.n127.3 ---------------
From: RICHARD MUNDIE <rmundie@es.co.nz>
Subject: Matricide
Date: Tue, 17 Sep 96 22:34 GMT+1200
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
Well, when I saw it with my mother, she definitely didn't like it. I think
if I was a mother and my kid started obsessing about a film where matricide
is committed, I'd feel a little spooked too.
About the Kate W birthday thing- great idea, count me in.
GREER
-------------------------------------------------
Richard from Dunedin,New Zealand
-------------------------------------------------
--------------- MESSAGE heavenly-c.v001.n127.4 ---------------
From: "Jefferson F. Morris" <jfmorris@CapAccess.org>
Subject: B-Day Wishes
Date: Tue, 17 Sep 1996 14:30:02 -0400 (EDT)
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII
On Mon, 16 Sep 1996, Bao Ly wrote:
> I agree. If we are to send one letter and with a single card--it should
> start this minute!
Let's do it.
> We need someone to write a letter to Kate Winslet on the list's behalf.
> As usual, I nominate Jefferson Morris and/or Phil West. :-)
Flip a coin. I'd be willing to write it, should I be called upon. I
would promise not to make it too sappy/slavish/creepy/overtly sexual. I
would also post a draft to the list, of course. Then whoever is
geographically closest to the mailing address (Reading or Beverly Hills?)
could pick a tasteful card and send the letter with it.
But who should collect the participants' names? I nominate Bao.
And we'll need the address, obviously.
--Jefferson
--------------- MESSAGE heavenly-c.v001.n127.5 ---------------
From: B&B APCO LIBRARY <LIB-APCO@balch.com>
Subject: B-Day Wishes -Reply
Date: Tue, 17 Sep 1996 13:56:52 -0600
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain
Content-Disposition: inline
Here's the most recent address I have on Kate:
Kate Winslet
c/o Jonathan Rutter
McDonald & Rutter
14/15 D'arblay Street
London W1V 3 FP
England
My sister got her autograph about 3 weeks after she sent a letter.
Jonathan is Kate's assistant. I don't know if this address still
holds true. It was a couple months ago that my sister got her
autograph. I hope this helps in the B-day wishes.
Please include my best wishes to Kate -- whoever decides to do it.
Pam
lib-apco@balch.com
--------------- MESSAGE heavenly-c.v001.n127.6 ---------------
From: Michael Pellas <mpellas@sgi.net>
Subject: Re: B-Day Wishes
Date: Tue, 17 Sep 1996 15:59:25 -0400
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
Please include my wish:
Wishing you an unforgettable birthday,
Michael Pellas
--------------- MESSAGE heavenly-c.v001.n127.7 ---------------
From: Bao Ly <lybao@earthlink.net>
Subject: Re: B-Day Wishes
Date: Tue, 17 Sep 1996 12:56:05 -0700
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
Jefferson F. Morris wrote:
> Flip a coin. I'd be willing to write it, should I be called upon. I
> would promise not to make it too sappy/slavish/creepy/overtly sexual.
> I would also post a draft to the list, of course.
This is great! While here's your big chance to woo Kate, I suppose?? ;-)
> Then whoever is geographically closest to the mailing address (Reading
> or Beverly Hills?) could pick a tasteful card and send the letter with it.
The first card idea I have is a Pre-Raphaelite painting (alas, she *was*
compared to as a 'Pre-Raphaelite maiden' in the British press) -- NO,
not the chunky cherubs painted by Rubens! remember. !!!!!!
> But who should collect the participants' names? I nominate Bao.
I accept. Woohoo???
> And we'll need the address, obviously.
I've written to Kate Winslet recently on July 30th and recieved an
autograph on August 8th. I was so impressed. I thought either Kate
doesn't have a lot of fans (ie, fan mails) or my Borovnian labels must
of been pretty cool. The address I used was:
Kate Winslet
31/32 Soho Square
London W1V 5DF
England
Of course, count me in! Wait a minute...I'll count myself in!
Happy Birthday Kate! Bao Ly
,,,,,,,,,,,,,
.;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;,.
.;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;,
.;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;.
;;;;;@;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;' .............
;;;;@@;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;'.................
;;;;@@;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;'...................
`;;;;@;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;@;;;;;;;'.....................
`;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;@@;;;;;'..................;....
`;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;@@;;;;'....................;;...
`;;;;;;;;;;;;;@;;;;'...;.................;;....
`;;;;;;;;;;;;' ...;;...............;.....
`;;;;;;' ...;;..................
;; ..;...............
` ............
` ......
` ..
` '
` '
` '
` `
` `,
`
`
`.
'The balloon has gone up!'
--------------- MESSAGE heavenly-c.v001.n127.8 ---------------
From: B&B APCO LIBRARY <LIB-APCO@balch.com>
Subject: RE: ADDRESS FOR POSTER SHOP
Date: Tue, 17 Sep 1996 14:55:13 -0600
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain
Content-Disposition: inline
Here's the address to the poster shop in Texas:
Remember When
2431 Valwood Parkway
Farmers Branch, TX 75234
phone: (972) 243-3439
Good luck!
Pam
--------------- MESSAGE heavenly-c.v001.n127.9 ---------------
From: trustno1@ra.isisnet.com (Gina)
Subject: Happy B-day Kate
Date: Tue, 17 Sep 1996 17:40:22 -0300 (ADT)
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
Happy Birthday Kate, you're the best.
Celeste Young
just having thoughts of marianne,...quickest girl
in the frying pan...
~tori~
--------------- MESSAGE heavenly-c.v001.n127.10 ---------------
From: Bao Ly <lybao@earthlink.net>
Subject: S&S Multimedia OLE!
Date: Tue, 17 Sep 1996 14:04:41 -0700
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
I have just uploaded a bunch of S&S AVI clips, WAV file, and Pics to
John Argentiero's Unofficial Kate Winslet Homepage. About half of them
are new additions to the page, and half is (already) currently
available. I guess for those who have been keeping track, you'll know
which ones I've contributed.
1. Sense & Sensibilities - Trailer
SENSE.AVI (3.42MB)
2. Sense & Sensibilities - Trailer
SENSE02.AVI (5.97MB)
3. Sense & Sensibilities - Trailer
SENSE_SE.AVI (685KB)
4. Sense - Nose Swelling Clip
SEE_HIM.AVI (854KB)
5. Sense - Willoughby Clip
MASCULN.AVI (767KB)
6. Sense - Your Heart Clip
HEART.AVI (854KB)
7. Sense - Emma On Greg Clip
BLADE.AVI (984KB)
8. Sense - Marianne Clip
ANKLE.AVI (1.2MB)
9. Sense - Emma On Hugh Clip
EDWARD.AVI (844KB)
10. Sense - Hugh Grant Clip
ROMANTIC.AVI (662KB)
11. Sense - Copied It Clip
COPIEDIT.AVI (777KB)
12. Sense - Ang Lee Clip
CRAZY.AVI (699KB)
13. Sense - My Father's Favorite
SENSE2.WAV (1.02MB)
01-15. sense00-sense15 (medium-large b&w stills)
16-41. sense16-sense43 (medium-large color stills)
01-22. smallsense01-smallsense22 (small b&w and color stills)
That's 65 stills total folks! Enjoy.
P.S. You usually have to wait about A YEAR for John to update. :-)
--
"Still harping on Kate Winslet."
"Innocence. Imagination. Obsession."
lybao@earthink.net
--------------- END heavenly-c.v001.n127 ---------------
--
"'Tis indeed a miracle, one must feel, bryan woodworth
that two such heavenly creatures are real." bryanw@borovnia.666.org
-- "Heavenly Creatures," 1994 PGP Public Key obtainable
http://www.reflection.org/heavenly/ via finger: bryanw@best.com
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From: bryanw@borovnia.666.org (Bryan Woodworth)
To: b@666.org
Subject: 128
Date: Thu, 03 Oct 1996 03:01:17 GMT
Organization: "Heavenly Creatures" Fan Club
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Subject: Digest heavenly-c.v001.n128
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-------------- BEGIN heavenly-c.v001.n128 --------------
001 - Bao Ly <lybao@earthlink.n - Re: ADDRESS FOR POSTER SHOP
002 - bronwyn@globalserve.on.ca - Re: Kate Winslet Birthday card
003 - RICHARD MUNDIE <rmundie@e - Kate article
004 - miranda.kaye@stonebow.ota - Re: NZ reaction and a grumble
005 - adamabr@mail.helix.net (a - Happy Birthday Kate
006 - B&B APCO LIBRARY <LIB-APC - Birthday wishes
007 - Phil West <pgw16@hermes.c - Kate's Birthday Card
008 - Phil West <pgw16@hermes.c - Re: Romeo and Juliet
009 - yyancey1@ic3.ithaca.edu - Re: Matricide
010 - Wingnut <thaivo@ea.oac.uc - Re: Ugh-worst case scenario for Melanie
Lynskey
--------------- MESSAGE heavenly-c.v001.n128.1 ---------------
From: Bao Ly <lybao@earthlink.net>
Subject: Re: ADDRESS FOR POSTER SHOP
Date: Tue, 17 Sep 1996 14:54:20 -0700
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
snip...
My two cent:
I have been tracking down HC posters as of late. I have 5 to this date,
all US posters. Sorry folks, I had already promised a few people of what
I can get. If anyone wants to trade any non-US HC posters for US HC
posters, or otherwise, please let me know. I'm interested in the France
HC poster (alas same photo on CD but in blue and red!), Finnish HC
poster, etc. Or if anyone knows of any good source or info on foreign
movie poster places, please post it to the list.
Most of the places that I've encountered always say they can get more,
but that is not the case. Today I'd offered to buy 50 from a dealer if
they can get more...and they thought I was joking with them. Of course,
I wasn't at all and I wanted a discount. I really doubt that they can
get it, but just so you know....
Finally, I think those who wants HC posters should try to locate some
good movie poster places in their vicinity and scrape up what is
possibly left, because from my experience, it will be extremely hard to
find enough posters for everyone on this list. Lets face it.
And those who are not posting their messages to 'The Kate's Birthday
Bash' won't get any cake either!
--
"I have decided that my New Year's resolution is
to be more lenient with others." -lybao@earthlink.net
--------------- MESSAGE heavenly-c.v001.n128.2 ---------------
From: bronwyn@globalserve.on.ca (Bronwyn Graves)
Subject: Re: Kate Winslet Birthday card
Date: Tue, 17 Sep 1996 18:30:58 -0400 (EDT)
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
Please includes my birthday wishes:
Wishing you a HEAVENLY birthday!
Bronwyn Graves
Okay it's just a little tacky, but I just couldn;t resist! :)
--------------- MESSAGE heavenly-c.v001.n128.3 ---------------
From: RICHARD MUNDIE <rmundie@es.co.nz>
Subject: Kate article
Date: Wed, 18 Sep 96 11:36 GMT+1200
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
I found this small article on Kate today. It's from "Girlfriend" June 1996:
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
----
Kate Winslet's star is shining bright. Riding high with the success of
"Sense and Sensibility",20-year-old Kate can do no wrong right now.
Her debut as a murderer in "Heavenly Creatures" made the world sit up and
take notice, and her Jane Austen performance sealed her fate. She's just
finished her third film, "Jude", and will play Ophelia in Kenneth Branagh's
"Hamlet". Not bad for a 20-year-old who worked in a deli!
Kate grew up in London and has been performing since the age of 13. She
comes from a family of actors, but, "My family didn't encourage me," she
says. "But I was determined that I was going to do it. Now they just let me
get on with it."
Kate may look the picture of perfection, but she's battled to the top. She
was once the fat kid, teased by all. At 15, she weighed 83 kilos. Then she
decided stardom called, went to drama school and stopped eating.
Not suprisingly, she bordered on anorexia and spent years battling against
an obsession.
"The feeling was so seductive," she says. "I'd lie in bed, getting some
kind of a thrill out of feeling my bones sticking out, thinking 'I'm
concave, how lovely.'"
How not. But with her body image under control, she's now happy with
herself. But there's one more thing she wants... to co-star with Brad. "I
fancy the pants off him," she laughs. Don't we all Katy!
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
GREER
--------------- MESSAGE heavenly-c.v001.n128.4 ---------------
From: miranda.kaye@stonebow.otago.ac.nz (Miranda Kaye)
Subject: Re: NZ reaction and a grumble
Date: Wed, 18 Sep 1996 18:53:34 +1200 (NZST)
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
Tine Neilsen asked:
>Erm I don't know if this has been up before but, as it seems there are quite
>a few people from NZ here I was wondering what the general reception of HC
>was down there. Were people shocked ? or what ?
Considering that Jackson's last film was a splatter zombie flick??! I think
that NZ audiences were so relieved that they didn't even consider being
shocked!
No, NZers weren't particularly shocked by the film (no more than - maybe
even less than - the rest of the world) - just interested. The way NZ
relates to the Parker/Hulme case is far more complex than many have
comprehended. It was a major event of the fifties and had ramifications for
an entire generation - not that least because it occured at a time when
society's fear of the teenager was at its zenith. There were other events
(murders, even) at the same time that moved NZ into legislation to stem the
flow of corrupt youth.
But we're not all stuck in the fifties and horrified that someone would
dare tell the tale. I don't assume that all Americans are still grieving
over JFK's death just because Hollywood has made a few films on the
assasination!! Yes, Honora's murder was horrific and yes, there are some
who still find mention of it gruesome. But shock? I think that most of the
*really* shocked viewers live off NZ's shores.
Most on the HC-list seem to have conjured up the idea that the NZ public
goes around whispering about the Parker/Hulme story, fearful of being heard
- as if it might still be possible to insult the good people of
Christchurch with a reminder of that terrible crime. That's rubbish. It
happened 40 years ago!! NZ is isolated, but not comatose - we move on! A
dozen people were gunned down in 1990 in a small village just down the road
from here. That event haunts NZ society far more these days than a murder
in 1954.
HEAVENLY CREATURES has been admired in NZ for it's reasonable portrayal of
a terrible and inexplicable crime that played a part in defining an era.
The audience I was in gave the film - and Simon O'Connor - a rousing
ovation at the end, and everyone went home buzzing. HEAVENLY CREATURES
rekindled interest in the case, but considering that prior to HC there had
been a book written and a critically successful play performed, the film
wasn't at all out of the blue.
As Sam Neill says in CINEMA OF UNEASE, some think HEAVENLY CREATURES is the
best film made in NZ to date. I agree with him, but frankly HC didn't rock
NZ half as much as ONCE WERE WARRIORS did - now *there's* a shocking film!
Sorry to use your post as a starting point for a grumble, Tine, but I
really had to get this off my chest! The HC-list is so busy discussing the
various merits of Pauline's performance and the importance of sending Kate
Winslet a birthday card, but few listers have shown any desire to
understand the cultural (and film historical) environment HEAVENLY
CREATURES was made in. There's a lot to
learn if you're interested!
Miranda
Miranda Kaye,
Department of English, U. of Otago
Dunedin, New Zealand
ph: +64 3 473 0941
--------------- MESSAGE heavenly-c.v001.n128.5 ---------------
From: adamabr@mail.helix.net (adam abrams)
Subject: Happy Birthday Kate
Date: Wed, 18 Sep 1996 02:09:24 -0800
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
Count me in, naturally! Message for Kate follows:
---------------------------------------------------
Hello Kate,
Here's wishing you the very best on your big day!
Adam Abrams
==========================================================================
Visit the "Fourth World" at http://www.helix.net/~adamabr/creatures.html
Then check out "Adam's World of Fun!" http://www.helix.net/~adamabr/awof
==========================================================================
--------------- MESSAGE heavenly-c.v001.n128.6 ---------------
From: B&B APCO LIBRARY <LIB-APCO@balch.com>
Subject: Birthday wishes
Date: Wed, 18 Sep 1996 07:48:31 -0600
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain
Content-Disposition: inline
Please add my b-day greeting:
Kate,
Have a great one!
Pam Acree
--------------- MESSAGE heavenly-c.v001.n128.7 ---------------
From: Phil West <pgw16@hermes.cam.ac.uk>
Subject: Kate's Birthday Card
Date: Wed, 18 Sep 1996 14:10:05 +0100 (BST)
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII
On Tuesday 17 September, Jefferson wrote
> > We need someone to write a letter to Kate Winslet on the list's behalf.
> > As usual, I nominate Jefferson Morris and/or Phil West.
>
> Flip a coin. I'd be willing to write it, should I be called upon. I
> would promise not to make it too sappy/slavish/creepy/overtly sexual. I
> would also post a draft to the list, of course. Then whoever is
> geographically closest to the mailing address (Reading or Beverly Hills?)
> could pick a tasteful card and send the letter with it.
(1) I think Jefferson should definitely write the letter! After all, he
sat through 'A Kid in King Arthur's Court'. (Although I must be the only
person who has seen KW in 'Casualty'??). Get drafting!
(2) Bao to beat messages out of all Creatures and collect them up.
(3) I am most willing to do the card choosing and posting if either of the
English addresses are used. Hell, I'll even deliver it by hand, I'm always
hanging around darkened doorways in Soho (like Bob Hoskins in 'Mona Lisa')
At any rate, my two-cents' worth for inclusion would be this, which is
from the 1626 text of Hamlet (ll. 1764-5):
'Could Beauty have better Commerce than your Honesty?'
Happy 21st. Phil West
Somebody say 'Make it so' and I'll start eyeing cards. Oops, was that a
Star Trek reference? Perhaps Jean Guerin is right, after all.
Ever,
Phil
--------------- MESSAGE heavenly-c.v001.n128.8 ---------------
From: Phil West <pgw16@hermes.cam.ac.uk>
Subject: Re: Romeo and Juliet
Date: Wed, 18 Sep 1996 14:34:34 +0100 (BST)
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII
Alicia wrote
> Just to pick holes;
> I know that in Australian society today we are gradually seeing the class
> distinctions blur..I mean, in my opinion it is nearly impossible to define
> the working class from the middle class and *distinctly* do so.
It's pretty easy to tell in England in places like Cambridge and Oxford
(which, in their mildly ossified state, must resemble Christchurch a bit).
You've only got to listen to the accents. Public (=private) schoolkids
develop an utterly distinctive upper-middle-class drawl which is quite
unmistakeable (our Tory politicians all have it). It certainly acts as a
bagde of identity in certain quarters. One look at the senior Civil
Service in Britain is enough to show that the right background can still
count for everything, regardless of ability, or wealth.
> I realise that in the time of Paul and Jules there were more class
> distinctions, but I am just wondering how distinct these classes were
> even 30 years ago.
Again, I don't know about NZ, but in England, the Hulmes would have
soared way up in the top ranks of the middle class. Being a Cambridge don
in those days was much more prestigious than it is now. Students weren't
even allowed to address dons if they passed them in the street!
Especially if they weren't wearing a gown (heaven forbid!!)
My experience of the British style of class antipathy is that you don't
notice it until it laughs down its nose at you. I'd never imagined such
things existed until I hit Cambridge.
But then again, like the man said, it's not so bad...
Phil
--------------- MESSAGE heavenly-c.v001.n128.9 ---------------
From: yyancey1@ic3.ithaca.edu
Subject: Re: Matricide
Date: Wed, 18 Sep 1996 10:19:14 -0400 (EDT)
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT
I was the one who first wrote about watching HC w/ my mother (by
the way, I'm a girl). I've also had friends become completely
close-minded and negative towards the film after I've told them about it.
They shouted, "I could never do that to my mother! etc, etc". As if you
have to want to do that in order to appreciate the film or sympathize w/
the characters. Anyway...
Oh, count me in for Kate's card, too!
Yani
--------------- MESSAGE heavenly-c.v001.n128.10 ---------------
From: Wingnut <thaivo@ea.oac.uci.edu>
Subject: Re: Ugh-worst case scenario for Melanie Lynskey
Date: Wed, 18 Sep 1996 07:55:18 -0700 (PDT)
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII
> Melanie Lynskey appearing on Shortland Street. At any time, in any guise.
> God forbid, as my grandmother would say.
I'm not a New Zealander, but would love to know what you're speaking
of.. : ) Is Shortland Street some dismal sitcom?
-Thai
----------------------------
"New Year's Resolution...Is a far more selfish one this year..
It is to make my motto, eat, drink and be merry... for tomorrow
you may be dead." - Pauline Parker 1954~
Melanie Lynskey: The One I Worship (http://www.best.com/~thaivo)
---------------------------
--------------- END heavenly-c.v001.n128 ---------------
--
"'Tis indeed a miracle, one must feel, bryan woodworth
that two such heavenly creatures are real." bryanw@borovnia.666.org
-- "Heavenly Creatures," 1994 PGP Public Key obtainable
http://www.reflection.org/heavenly/ via finger: bryanw@best.com
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From: bryanw@borovnia.666.org (Bryan Woodworth)
To: b@666.org
Subject: 129
Date: Thu, 03 Oct 1996 03:01:25 GMT
Organization: "Heavenly Creatures" Fan Club
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-------------- BEGIN heavenly-c.v001.n129 --------------
001 - Jean Guerin <orson@CAM.OR - Re: NZ reaction and a grumble
002 - RICHARD MUNDIE <rmundie@e - Shortland St
003 - Michael Pellas <mpellas@s - Re: NZ reaction and a grumble
004 - Jane <misc1341@cantva.can - Re: NZ reaction and a grumble
005 - Jane <misc1341@cantva.can - Re: Mel on Shortland St
006 - Phil West <pgw16@hermes.c - An apology for poetry
007 - Jessie Lymn <jalymn@stude - Re: Digest heavenly-c.v001.n128
008 - 9506148v@Magpie.Magill.Un - Re: Digest heavenly-c.v001.n128
009 - Steven Fammatre <rotwiler - Re:The Youngs Poisoner's Handbook
010 - Wingnut <thaivo@ea.oac.uc - Re: Shortland St
--------------- MESSAGE heavenly-c.v001.n129.1 ---------------
From: Jean Guerin <orson@CAM.ORG>
Subject: Re: NZ reaction and a grumble
Date: Wed, 18 Sep 96 11:16:07 -0400
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII"
>Sorry to use your post as a starting point for a grumble, Tine, but I
>really had to get this off my chest! The HC-list is so busy discussing the
>various merits of Pauline's performance and the importance of sending Kate
>Winslet a birthday card, but few listers have shown any desire to
>understand the cultural (and film historical) environment HEAVENLY
>CREATURES was made in. There's a lot to
>learn if you're interested!
>
>Miranda
Hear, Hear!
Jean Guerin
Bon Vivant, Raconteur
Writer (HOUR, CineFantastique)
Actor ("Heavenly Creatures")
Film Buff (Fant*Asia Festival & The Festival That Ate My Brain)
Movie Critic (CBC's Brave New Waves & CBC-TV's CityBeat)
"Sexy Demon" -TIME magazine
orson@cam.org
http://www.cam.org/~orson
--------------- MESSAGE heavenly-c.v001.n129.2 ---------------
From: RICHARD MUNDIE <rmundie@es.co.nz>
Subject: Shortland St
Date: Thu, 19 Sep 96 06:58 GMT+1200
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
Thai-
Shortland Street is a completely abysmal soap opera set in a medical centre
in Auckland NZ- a year or so ago it had a truly huge following in New
Zealand but that's starting to decline now.
Appearing on "Shorters" (ugh) has pretty much dropped several of NZ's best
actors entirely out of the line of quality programming- for instance Timothy
Balme (who I'm sure was in one of PJ's earlier movies, I'm not sure which
one, poss. Braindead).
However it was also where Temuera Morrison first came to the public eye to
display his prodigious acting talents and so got the part of Jake in Once
Were Warriors- and that's the only good thing the damn programme's ever done.
By the way, if you've seen all the movies that have come out of NZ in the
last few years (Once Were Warriors, The Piano, HC (of course) and the newest
one, Broken English which I don't think has even premiered yet, but hey, if
you do see it) you may be thinking that NZ is an extremely narrow-minded,
violent, barbarous but beautiful country. It's not really- except for the
beautiful part. We just seem to get the worst traits of our society
portrayed on the big screen...
GREER
--------------- MESSAGE heavenly-c.v001.n129.3 ---------------
From: Michael Pellas <mpellas@sgi.net>
Subject: Re: NZ reaction and a grumble
Date: Wed, 18 Sep 1996 16:53:09 -0400
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
>Sorry to use your post as a starting point for a grumble, Tine, but I
>really had to get this off my chest! The HC-list is so busy discussing the
>various merits of Pauline's performance and the importance of sending Kate
>Winslet a birthday card, but few listers have shown any desire to
>understand the cultural (and film historical) environment HEAVENLY
>CREATURES was made in. There's a lot to
>learn if you're interested!
>I'd love to learn...
Michael
--------------- MESSAGE heavenly-c.v001.n129.4 ---------------
From: Jane <misc1341@cantva.canterbury.ac.nz>
Subject: Re: NZ reaction and a grumble
Date: Thu, 19 Sep 1996 09:05:36 +1300
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT
Miranda wrote:
> No, NZers weren't particularly shocked by the film (no more than - maybe
> even less than - the rest of the world) - just interested.
Although there were some reservations in the local Christchurch
community - mainly (and understandably) from people who knew the
people involved. These reservations were first expressed with the
Court Theatre's production of Forster's Daughters of Heaven. But
having said that I agree with Miranda - the film caused little in
terms of real objection.
The way NZ
> relates to the Parker/Hulme case is far more complex than many have
> comprehended.
Absolutely - especially in the South Island. The murder did not
occur in cultural isolation, it was not an event that stood of, and
by itself. That is why the opening sequence of HC is so important,
it sets the murder within broader context - it aligns chaos with the
facade of conservatism of Christchurch in the 1950's.
> But we're not all stuck in the fifties and horrified that someone would
> dare tell the tale.
Of course not. The film re-dressed many imbalances (including in my
opinion, those of the Laurie/Galmuzina interpretation) in the
re-telling of the story. Once an event has occured there can *only*
be re-tellings of it anyway - this is unavoidable. Most
contemporary NZ'ers are far removed from the death of Nora Parker
but it is part of NZ's history and there *is* interest, but no
longer horror - maybe in some people there is a curiosity, a drive
to understand how and why it happened.
> Most on the HC-list seem to have conjured up the idea that the NZ public
> goes around whispering about the Parker/Hulme story, fearful of being heard
> - as if it might still be possible to insult the good people of
> Christchurch with a reminder of that terrible crime. That's rubbish.
Thanks for saying that Miranda - because its true. I live in Chch
(and have done for years) - there are still a surprising number of
people who know little about the case. And there are many who
haven't seen the film.
> As Sam Neill says in CINEMA OF UNEASE, some think HEAVENLY CREATURES is the
> best film made in NZ to date. I agree with him, but frankly HC didn't rock
> NZ half as much as ONCE WERE WARRIORS did - now *there's* a shocking film!
Absolutely, I have heard far more talk of Once Were Warriors as a
frightening and plausible representation of violence in NZ than HC.
> Sorry to use your post as a starting point for a grumble, Tine, but I
> really had to get this off my chest! The HC-list is so busy discussing the
> various merits of Pauline's performance and the importance of sending Kate
> Winslet a birthday card, but few listers have shown any desire to
> understand the cultural (and film historical) environment HEAVENLY
> CREATURES was made in.
I agree with this 100% and am pleased to see such comments coming
through. What do other people think?
Jane
_...._
/ \
/ o __ o \
( \/ )
OGDEN! ) (
( - - - )
( )
( )
------------------/l\ /l\-------------------
------------------------------------------
( )
( __ _)
She's so tough that when she burnt her bra she didn't take
it off.....
--------------- MESSAGE heavenly-c.v001.n129.5 ---------------
From: Jane <misc1341@cantva.canterbury.ac.nz>
Subject: Re: Mel on Shortland St
Date: Thu, 19 Sep 1996 09:05:37 +1300
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT
Didn't anyone catch Mel's cameo appearance on Shortland St last year
then?
Shortland St is a NZ medical soap opera drama.
Jane
_...._
/ \
/ o __ o \
( \/ )
OGDEN! ) (
( - - - )
( )
( )
------------------/l\ /l\-------------------
------------------------------------------
( )
( __ _)
She's so tough that when she burnt her bra she didn't take
it off.....
--------------- MESSAGE heavenly-c.v001.n129.6 ---------------
From: Phil West <pgw16@hermes.cam.ac.uk>
Subject: An apology for poetry
Date: Wed, 18 Sep 1996 22:14:46 +0100 (BST)
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII
Excuse me, Mr. West, you've made a mistake:
> At any rate, my two-cents' worth for inclusion would be this, which is
> from the 1626 text of Hamlet (ll. 1764-5):
>
> 'Could Beauty have better Commerce than your Honesty?'
You should have written 1623!
Will: Shaksperes ghost
(off to roam the newly-rebuilt Globe theatre)
--------------- MESSAGE heavenly-c.v001.n129.7 ---------------
From: Jessie Lymn <jalymn@student.adelaide.edu.au>
Subject: Re: Digest heavenly-c.v001.n128
Date: Thu, 19 Sep 1996 10:23:55 +0930 (CST)
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII
i thought that this migght be considered interesting- i was listening to a
review of the move 'the young poisoner's handbook' on our supercool
national radio station, triple j, and the reviewer said that it was
similar in mystery and curiousity to only one other movie, which happened
to be hc! i don't really know what the movie is about, but any connection
with hc makes it interesting.
by the way - i saw sister my sister on the weekend and felt immensely
sickened by it. sure, it followed many of the sames tones of hc, but hc
was so happy and joyful most of the time, and didn't make that whole
atmosphere feel so dismal. sister my sister had my stomach churning, and
the nursery rhyme song still haunts my sleep.
please add my congratulations to the birthday wishes,
jessie
--------------- MESSAGE heavenly-c.v001.n129.8 ---------------
From: 9506148v@Magpie.Magill.UniSA.edu.au
Subject: Re: Digest heavenly-c.v001.n128
Date: Thu, 19 Sep 1996 11:01:07 +0930
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT
On Thu, 19 Sep 1996, Jessie Lymn wrote:
> i thought that this migght be considered interesting- i was listening to a
> review of the move 'the young poisoner's handbook' on our supercool
> national radio station, triple j, and the reviewer said that it was
> similar in mystery and curiousity to only one other movie, which happened
> to be hc! i don't really know what the movie is about, but any connection
> with hc makes it interesting.
Hmmm... I heard that too. He said that, like HC, The Young Poisoner's
Handbook 'explores rather than explains'. It sounds like a good film, but I
am yet to see it.
Also, I noticed that someone has been mentioning the Shortland Street drama
thing a bit. Well, one of the actors from it (I don't know his name) is
going to be on Home and Away in Australia (it was in some pulp tv guide mag).
Is this a step up or down?
Shannon <9506148v@magpie.magill.unisa.edu.au>
'It's everyone else who's bonkers!'
--------------- MESSAGE heavenly-c.v001.n129.9 ---------------
From: Steven Fammatre <rotwiler@uclink4.berkeley.edu>
Subject: Re:The Youngs Poisoner's Handbook
Date: Wed, 18 Sep 1996 19:25:47 -0700
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
At 11:01 AM 9/19/96 +0930, you wrote:
>He said that, like HC, The Young Poisoner's
>Handbook 'explores rather than explains'. It sounds like a good film, but I
>am yet to see it.
Young Poisoner's ripped off "A Clockwork Orange" -- see that instead. In
fact, see all of Stanley Kubrick's films...He's even better than Jackson or
Campion...
Ciao
Steven Fammatre
--------------- MESSAGE heavenly-c.v001.n129.10 ---------------
From: Wingnut <thaivo@ea.oac.uci.edu>
Subject: Re: Shortland St
Date: Wed, 18 Sep 1996 22:05:21 -0700 (PDT)
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII
> Shortland Street is a completely abysmal soap opera set in a medical centre
> in Auckland NZ- a year or so ago it had a truly huge following in New
> Zealand but that's starting to decline now.
Ahh..
> Appearing on "Shorters" (ugh) has pretty much dropped several of NZ's best
> actors entirely out of the line of quality programming- for instance Timothy
> Balme (who I'm sure was in one of PJ's earlier movies, I'm not sure which
> one, poss. Braindead).
: ) I just read that Melanie made a small cameo on the show.. Is that
right?!? I guess I'm not too picky concerning her selection of roles.
It's nice to hear that she's in something, if just only some silly medical
melodrama. Then again, I shouldn't call it silly since I've not seen any
of it. Timothy Balme, I think he played the main protagonist in
Braindead, I liked him. Surprised that he didn't put in a cameo in any of
Jackson's later works. That reminds me, could someone tell me I'm right or
wrong on this one. Is John from HC the leather jacketed punk zombie from
Braindead?
> However it was also where Temuera Morrison first came to the public eye to
> display his prodigious acting talents and so got the part of Jake in Once
> Were Warriors- and that's the only good thing the damn programme's ever done.
Liked him a lot in OWW, excellent movie.
> you do see it) you may be thinking that NZ is an extremely narrow-minded,
> violent, barbarous but beautiful country. It's not really- except for the
> beautiful part. We just seem to get the worst traits of our society
> portrayed on the big screen...
Not at all. I've loved most of what I've seen coming out of NZ, which
is not much. OWW didn't leave me with an impression of barbarism, more
like a beautiful cultural history, and scenery. Well, I'm going off on
tangents.. : )
-Thai
----------------------------
"New Year's Resolution...Is a far more selfish one this year..
It is to make my motto, eat, drink and be merry... for tomorrow
you may be dead." - Pauline Parker 1954~
Melanie Lynskey: The One I Worship (http://www.best.com/~thaivo)
---------------------------
--------------- END heavenly-c.v001.n129 ---------------
--
"'Tis indeed a miracle, one must feel, bryan woodworth
that two such heavenly creatures are real." bryanw@borovnia.666.org
-- "Heavenly Creatures," 1994 PGP Public Key obtainable
http://www.reflection.org/heavenly/ via finger: bryanw@best.com
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Subject: Digest heavenly-c.v001.n130
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-------------- BEGIN heavenly-c.v001.n130 --------------
001 - Jean Guerin <orson@CAM.OR - Re: Shortland St
002 - RICHARD MUNDIE <rmundie@e - ML on Shortland St?!
003 - tinen@dorit.ihi.ku.dk (Ti - Re: PRINCE WHO ?
004 - tinen@dorit.ihi.ku.dk (Ti - Kate's Bday card - My consent !!!
005 - tinen@dorit.ihi.ku.dk (Ti - HC poster, I finally found it !
006 - pinworm@direct.ca (John F - Re:The Youngs Poisoner's Handbook
007 - Phil West <pgw16@hermes.c - Grumbly Creatures and Medlicott
008 - "Jefferson F. Morris" <jf - Drafting...and grumbling about grumbling
009 - Phil West <pgw16@hermes.c - Revisions and retellings
010 - Jean Guerin <orson@CAM.OR - Re: Drafting...and grumbling about grumbling
--------------- MESSAGE heavenly-c.v001.n130.1 ---------------
From: Jean Guerin <orson@CAM.ORG>
Subject: Re: Shortland St
Date: Thu, 19 Sep 96 01:34:33 -0400
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII"
> Is John from HC the leather jacketed punk zombie from
>Braindead?
Yep! His name his Jed Brophy. Nice guy!
He also co-starred in CHICKEN (which, like HC was also co-produced by
Hanno Huth for Senator Films in Germany).
Jean Guerin
Bon Vivant, Raconteur
Writer (HOUR, CineFantastique)
Actor ("Heavenly Creatures")
Film Buff (Fant*Asia Festival & The Festival That Ate My Brain)
Movie Critic (CBC's Brave New Waves & CBC-TV's CityBeat)
"Sexy Demon" -TIME magazine
orson@cam.org
http://www.cam.org/~orson
--------------- MESSAGE heavenly-c.v001.n130.2 ---------------
From: RICHARD MUNDIE <rmundie@es.co.nz>
Subject: ML on Shortland St?!
Date: Thu, 19 Sep 96 18:38 GMT+1200
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She had a cameo? You're kidding! As what? This I must hear.... I agree with
Thai, Tim Balme is a great actor (his character, Greg, on Shortland St, was
the only person on that show I ever liked) but right at the moment his
career must be at an all- time low- currently he is starring in a drama
series called Coverstory- about a current affairs TV show, and I've seen a
few episodes- it's not great.
Anyway, about Mel's appearance on SS, when was it?...maybe I could get a
tape of the episode and see how she went showing up all the others' lack of
talent....
GREER
--------------- MESSAGE heavenly-c.v001.n130.3 ---------------
From: tinen@dorit.ihi.ku.dk (Tine Nielsen)
Subject: Re: PRINCE WHO ?
Date: Thu, 19 Sep 1996 11:18:42 +0200
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>
Jefferson F. wrote on Mon, 16 Sep 1996 15:03:43 -0400 (EDT)
>Speaking personally, I have little interest in the real lives of anyone
>involved. I just dig the movie.
>
I totally agree with you on this.
Ciao,
Tine Nielsen, Denmark Email: tinen@dorit.ihi.ku.dk
******************************************************
"I haven't lost what I can find in you" Debbie Gibson
DGIF no. #11521
"Only the best people fight against all obstacles in
persuit of happiness" Heavenly Creatures
******************************************************
--------------- MESSAGE heavenly-c.v001.n130.4 ---------------
From: tinen@dorit.ihi.ku.dk (Tine Nielsen)
Subject: Kate's Bday card - My consent !!!
Date: Thu, 19 Sep 1996 11:37:54 +0200
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Hi Kate,
Happy Birthday to you, I wanna tell ya, you're one of the most talented
actrices around, keep up the good work. I'm looking forward to seeing
"Jude". All the best in the future!
Tine Nielsen
Tine Nielsen, Denmark Email: tinen@dorit.ihi.ku.dk
******************************************************
"I haven't lost what I can find in you" Debbie Gibson
DGIF no. #11521
"Only the best people fight against all obstacles in
persuit of happiness" Heavenly Creatures
******************************************************
--------------- MESSAGE heavenly-c.v001.n130.5 ---------------
From: tinen@dorit.ihi.ku.dk (Tine Nielsen)
Subject: HC poster, I finally found it !
Date: Thu, 19 Sep 1996 12:50:31 +0200
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Hi all you creatures,
I'm so happy I was lucky enough to stumble over the HC poster at an art
cinema in town. It's so cool, it's got Danish writing on it tho, but
anyhow!!! It's got the picture from the British video cover on it, and at
the bottom a little from where Pauline, Juliet and Honora walk down the path
in the forest...it's so great, erm I don't mean to bring anybody down, but
I'm soooooo happy.
I think maybe it's a good idea to ask in cinemas for posters they usually
keep them quite a while after a movie has been screened.
>> Sorry to use your post as a starting point for a grumble, Tine, but I
>> really had to get this off my chest! The HC-list is so busy discussing the
>> various merits of Pauline's performance and the importance of sending Kate
>> Winslet a birthday card, but few listers have shown any desire to
>> understand the cultural (and film historical) environment HEAVENLY
>> CREATURES was made in.
>
>I agree with this 100% and am pleased to see such comments coming
>through. What do other people think?
>
>Jane
Me too....I'd like to learn more about everything surrounding the movie,
from casting to sneak previews everything to the editing process of
selecting which scenes should go. So if anybody's got anything they wanna
tell about the movie, please don't hesitate, or if you think not everybody
here will be interested you can email me personally.
Has anybody noticed that in some of the versions of HC, the scene with
Juliet screaming "I hate you" to her mother has been cut out ? I saw it on a
clip on tv. Having only seen the English version I wasn't aware of this before.
And sorry to Yani for calling her a guy, won't happen again.
"Oh you think you're such a clever little madam?"
Ciao,
Tine Nielsen, Denmark Email: tinen@dorit.ihi.ku.dk
******************************************************
"I haven't lost what I can find in you" Debbie Gibson
DGIF no. #11521
"Only the best people fight against all obstacles in
persuit of happiness" Heavenly Creatures
******************************************************
--------------- MESSAGE heavenly-c.v001.n130.6 ---------------
From: pinworm@direct.ca (John Frederick)
Subject: Re:The Youngs Poisoner's Handbook
Date: Thu, 19 Sep 1996 04:55:44 -0700
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>At 11:01 AM 9/19/96 +0930, you wrote:
>>He said that, like HC, The Young Poisoner's
>>Handbook 'explores rather than explains'. It sounds like a good film, but I
>>am yet to see it.
>
>Young Poisoner's ripped off "A Clockwork Orange" -- see that instead. In
>fact, see all of Stanley Kubrick's films...He's even better than Jackson or
>Campion...
How does it rip off 'A Clockwork Orange'? Other than that they both used
Henry Purcell's Music For The Funeral Of Queen Mary.
John
'I don't have a moral plan. I'm a Canadian.'
- David Cronenberg
--------------- MESSAGE heavenly-c.v001.n130.7 ---------------
From: Phil West <pgw16@hermes.cam.ac.uk>
Subject: Grumbly Creatures and Medlicott
Date: Thu, 19 Sep 1996 13:27:06 +0100 (BST)
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Dear me, we are a grumbly bunch, aren't we? Do I detect a sense of humour
failure in the ether? I agree with what Michael said: if you've things to
say about the culturo-politico-sociologico-cinematographico-historico-
tragi-comedic thing that is HC, then pray gird up your loins and say them!
We want to hear! (However, imho, I really don't think that intelligent
discussion and birthday cards need be mutually exclusive...)
Here's something to chew on for those who will. It's Reginald Medlicott's
second stab (the first is given in the FAQ) at writing up the Parker-Hulme
case. For the humorous few, try counting how many times he uses the word
'grossly' or its cognates. And remember - this is the man who summed up
Wendy Rieper as "an attractive blonde"...
[New Zealand Law Journal, 5 Dec 1961, pp. 345-8]
I have linked the Leopold-Loeb case with the Parker-Hulme, not merely
because of the renewed interest in it in recent years, but because of the
extraordinary similarity of the two cases.
In 1924, Leopold and Loeb, two outstandingly intelligent adolescent sons
of Chicago multi-millionaires, became so grossly involved in each other's
phantasy life and so megalomanic that they planned and murdered for ransom
a young boy. Thirty years later two adolescent girls, Parker and Hulme,
similarly became involved in each other's phantasy life and their liaison
culminated in the senseless murder of the mother of the older girl. Hulme
was also credited with outstanding intelligence and came from a prominent
family background.
[snip a bibliography for the two cases; see FAQ for these articles]
THEIR HISTORIES PRIOR TO THEIR MEETING
Both pairs grew up under the influence of world wars and came from
satisfactory family backgrounds. There was little unusual about their
siblings. As to their personalities, all four were highly imaginative but
were all wiful, self-contained children and none of them had firm lasting
relationships with others of their own age. They wore out their friends
rapidly. Although basically there was a feeling that no one cared for
them, unlike most youngsters without friends, they did not appear lonely.
They were all keenly aware of their outstanding intelligence. Their
childhood personalities could be described as narcissistic.
THE EVENTS LEADING TO THEIR CRIMES
As to their influence, one on the other, both pairs some time after their
meeting formed a self-boistering society of their own, becoming
increasingly independent of the opinion and support of their families and
the community. Parker wrote a diary which shows clearly that their degree
of abnormality was proportional to the time spent in one another's
company. They obviously acted as resonators one on the other. Of Leopold
and Loeb, "their coming together", said Clarence Darrow, "was the means of
their undoing. They had a weird and almost impossible relationship".
As to their emotional and sexual development, in spite of a veneer of
sophistication, all four were grossly immature emotionally, and unable to
show the positive emotions; they deprecated all tender feelings. Social
responsibility and guilt were absent. Sexually all four were homosexual.
As to their interest and philosophy all four enjoyed a rich phantasy life
with play-acting, and, in the girls' cases, the creation of fictional
kingdoms and characters. Their mutual interaction led to increasing
arrogance, self-inflation or omnipotence, contempt for others and they
totally embraced the superman philosophy. It is clearly revealed in
Parker's diary over the 18 months before the murder that this inflation
was accompanied by an increasing preoccupation with violence and crime
generally. In fact both pairs sometimes before the murders were
experimenting with crime.
The two girls expressed ideas that not only were they geniuses but that
they possessed an extra part of their brain which could appreciate a
"Fourth World" or paradise which was limited to them and a few other
chosen people.
THEIR CRIMES
[Snip PYP's diary entries for 21, 22 June]
There is evidence that the boys were in an excitable state before their
murder. Both pairs certainly showed gross exaltation which continued
after their murders and was continued during their trials. In spite of
their intelligence and lack of scruples the girls' murder was particularly
stupidly planned. The boys' murder, although better planned, had several
gross defects not at all in keeping with genius.
THE DIAGNOSTIC FORMULATION
In the Leopold and Loeb case the preliminary psychiatric team for the
defence, Dr Hulbert and Dr Carl Bowman, as well as the extraordinarily
distinguished team of William Alanson White, William Healey, and Bernard
Glueck who examined Leopold and Loeb all agreed that they were profoundly
disturbed personalities. They described the folie-a-deux element, the
infantile emotional development, in Leopold's case the delusional
development of notions about himself, the gross split between emotion and
thought, and their manic tendencies. The terms "split personality" and
"paranoia" were used, but there was no clear diagnostic formulation.
As to the girls I was satisfied that in the period leading to the crime
and immediately following it they were disturbed in mood, activity and
thought patterns to a degree consistent only with the diagnosis of
psychosis. Their psychoses were identical and the term folie-a-deux
applicable. There was no real question of inducer and inducee. It was a
folie simulatanee - a disturbance occurring in predisposed associated
individuals. As Darrow pointed out with the boys, "Their coming together
was the means of their undoing".
As to the nature of their psychosis I rejected the idea of schizophrenia
even though many people who read my paper later wanted to apply it. I do
not like the diagnosis "exalted paranoia". Paranoia ordinarily is a
variety of schizophrenia occurring in middle age, and the girls'
grandiosity was in no way similar to the later grandiose phase occuring
in deteriorating paranoiacs. The presence of persistent, organised
delusions, the preservation of clear and orderly thinking, and absence of
hallucinations made the term to some extent applicable.
On reflection I am satisfied that both Leopold and Loeb and Parker and
Hulme were exceptional, and that a diagnostic formulation apart from the
classical terms is not unreasonable. I would now use the formulation
"adolescent megalomania". Such a diagnosis, however, though rare, should
reflect a process of wider nature. I think it does. Exaltation is common
enough in adolescence. In discussing adolescent girls, Helene Deutsch
points out that at puberty the emotions turn away from childhood objects
on to the ego itself in the shape of intensified narcissism. The
adolescent, she says, becomes aware of "I" as "I". There is an emotional
vacuum between the world that is disappearing and another that has not yet
come into being. "Who shall I love now?". The girls chooses herself, and
this leads to greater self-confidence, but one effect, she says, of this
increased narcissism is "the common arrogant megalomania of adolescence".
It might be said that both pairs went into adolescence already strongly
narcissistic and each individual acted on the other as a resonator
increasing the pitch of their narcissism.
THE TRIAL
In both cases there were full confessions and the facts of the crime were
uncontested. The Leopold-Loeb case was fought under circumstances of
unusual public arousal. For the defence, Clarence Darrow felt a jury
would be so prejudiced that they would not listen to an insanity plea. He
pleaded "guilty" before a Judge so as to present evidence as to mitigation
and avoid the death penalty which Darrow naturally abhorred. The defence
psychiatrists presented an extremely careful case study and analysis. In
spite of the vicious personal attacks of the State Attorneys, these
psychiatrists were men of great integrity. White, Healey, Glueck were
already the outstanding American psychiatrists at that time. Bowman
subsequently became a leader.
In discussing the case with Bernard Glueck some years back it was obvious
that the years had not changed his opinion about Leopold and Loeb's gross
abnormality. As to responsibility, there could be no question about
intellectual knowledge of right and wrong. White however felt that there
was no adequate feeling attitude towards the wrongfulness of the act.
Basically they all felt that the crime was the result of diseased
motivation.
The prosecution sought to show the boys were perfectly normal, simply
"young egotistical smart-alecks" and that the need for the ransom money
was the sole reason for their actions. Four psychiatrists whose names I
have never heard of testified as to their complete normality and in
spite of the boys having large untouched banking accounts the State
Attorney attempted to show that this was just another murder for money.
The psychiatric defence in the Parker-Hulme trial again based its defence
upon careful case study, which was greatly aided by the diary Parker had
written over the preceeding 18 months. It traced for the court the
development of the accused personalities, the extraordinary effects of
their association and the development of a psychiatric illness - exalted
paranoia. It attempted to show that their crime was the inevitable result
of their diseased state, not simply the result of the alleged motive. It
was never denied that the girls knew intellectually that their murder was
wrong according to the law of the country. It was contended that they
were sufficiently disturbed by reason of mental disease to be unable to
pass a rational judgment on the moral nature of their act. This defence
is, of course, the possible broadest interpretation of the McNaghten
rules. Smith (1956) quotes Stephens J.: "Speaking of right and wrong",
he says, "I think anyone would fall into that description (inability to
know the quality of his act) who was deprived by disease affecting the
mind of the power of passing rational judgment on the moral character of
the act he means to do".
In spite of the fact that the McNaghten Rules are written into the New
Zealand law, juries will frequently ignore legalistic rules and apply the
moral rule that if it can be shown that an act arises out of a person's
sickness (disease of the mind) he is not responsible.
The prosecution in the Parker-Hulme trial were obviously afraid of this
and spent relatively little time with the cross-examination of the
McNaghten Rules but, as in the Leopold-Loeb trial, they tried to represent
the girls as normal criminals. The Crown Prosecutor described them as
"two ordinary dirty-minded girls" and the prosecution rallied round the
title "not mad but bad". The State's psychiatrists denied that the girls
were insane, in fact tried to show that none of their acts was grossly
abnormal, that their acts were all things you could expect from adolescent
children. The Crown Prosecutor maintained there was an adequate motive
for their murder. Comments from throughout New Zealand and overseas
almost unanimously found the normalising of two very abnormal girls tragic
if not ridiculous. An Australian paper referring to the designation
applied to the girls by the Crown Prosecutor as being incurably bad,
wondered if girls of 15 or 16 who are incurably bad could be anything but
insane. Even Mr Justice Adams, in his summing up, suggested that the
girls appeared to be suffering from some sort of mental disorder. He, of
course, pointed out that disease of the mind is not in itself a sufficient
defence. He stated: "The law does not relieve persons of criminal
responsibility merely because they are insane".
THEIR SUBSEQUENT HISTORIES
Leopold and Loeb studied and learnt to speak many languages in prison and
ran classes for prisoners. After Loeb's death by stabbing by a prisoner
who pleaded homosexual assault, Leopold continued his educational work and
later became a medical technician. It seems he was never popular and he
remained basically arrogant. His law-suit for $1,500,000 shortly after
his parole in 1958 is typical.
As to the girls, I have no official knowledge except the newspaper report
of their release. From what I have heard from various sources neither
girl was a serious problem in prison but I suspect the basic core of their
arrogance persisted.
The natural history of adolescent megalomania is unknown. The chances are
that without the continual stimulus of their mutual reaction and with
increasing age it loses its grossly psychotic nature and subsides.
OMNIPOTENCE
If we study the development of the personality psycho-analytically we find
that at the earliest infantile level, libido is centred on the infant
itself - primary narcissism. At this stage the infant has not yet
differentiated itself from its environment - the world and it are one,
with, you might say, its ego in the centre. In this state of primary
narcissistic oneness the ego appears to control everything and it feels
itself omnipotent - primary omnipotence. There is every reason to believe
that this omnipotence is accompanied by a sense of knowing everything -
primary omniscience. As the ego develops at least part of the
narcissistic libido is transformed into object love and with the
differentiation of the object world the infant is forced to relinquish his
belief in his omnipotence. As with all infantile processes the earlier
phases are never completely obliterated and deep down the individual
nurses his illusions of omnipotence. At the same time libido has the
capacity to regress to the earlier levels. In Parker, Hulme and Leopold
and to some extent Loeb, the long periods of attention during their
childhood illnesses may have increased their narcissism. The normal
adolescent increase in narcissism naturally presented more than usual
danger in these four already narcissistic persons. They acted on one
another as resonators increasing the pitch of their narcissism and
consequently their illusions of omnipotence. It has, in fact, been shown
with the girls their abnormality varied with the amount of time spent in
each other's company.
If we accept that omnipotence is the central feature in these cases and
that omnipotence stems from an early narcissistic state we must expect to
find other remnants of the infantile personality prominent. These
remnants are reflected in their demands for immediate gratification of
wishes and poor reality testing indicating domination by the pleasure
rather than the reality principle and by their typical outbursts of
aggression. With so strong a fixation at the pregenital level it is not
surprising that none of the four established satisfactory heterosexual
relationships and that they remained homosexual. As the super-ego is
rudimentary in this early phase we are not surprised that guilt was
largely absent.
THE ROLE PLAYED BY OMNIPOTENCE IN ADULT LIFE
Commonly omnipotence is projected on to an omnipotent and omniscient
deity. On the socially accepted side it may increase a sense of
invulnerability that leads to courage, and the phenomenon of "regression
and return" is undoubtedly the mainspring of much creative ability in
religion and art. Mysticism requires a cultivation of regression and a
return to the primeval oneness of the primary narcissistic position.
Careful initiation and ritual in mysticism prevents the acting out of
morbid infantile regressive phenomena such as illusions of omnipotence.
The residuals of the sense of omnipotence and omniscience form the basis
of magical thinking whether in the field of mythology or in the sphere of
the occult. Occultism par excellence attempts to deny man's finite
restrictions and promises power and knowledge beyond the limitation of
reality-rooted science.
As to the morbid aspects of illusions of omnipotence, gambling owes much
to this phenomenon. In the criminal, however, we have to deal commonly
with an omnipotence preserved in an adult mentality. Many criminals are
self-judging egocentrics, who, like these two pairs of murderers, place
themselves apart from the law. Psychotics reveal elements of omnipotence
and there seems a special connection between infantile omnipotence and the
inexorability of the paranoiac.
Finally, I will review the grossly developed omnipotence or megalomania as
shown in these pairs of murderers and as portrayed by some of the superman
philosophies. Megalomania involes "ego-inflation". Mood is exalted and
attitude is one of extreme arrogance. Sometimes the exaltation is
punctuated by brief depressions with self-destructive thoughts. Drive is
grossly increased, the need for sleep lessened and there may be
considerable output. Parker and Hulme, for example, wrote voluminously
during their exalted period. The phantasy life is exaggerated with
day-dreaming and play-acting. The phantasy world par excellence is a
world you can control. The content of the phantasy is largely aggressive
and destructive and there are always dangers of its being acted out in
real life. Murder is, in particular, the crime in which power over
another is shown. The thought pattern reflects the self-inflation, and in
all developed cases partakes of the superman philosophy. In this
philosophy the relation to the deity is altered. The girls reduced their
God from an omnipotent stature and exalted themselves. Nietzsche shouted
"God is dead!". Adler describes the fiction of "Gottahnlichkeit" or
similarity to God. At the same time relationship to their fellows is
radically altered towards profound contempt for the multitude and worship
of the superman. Moral values subserve the privileges of the few and in
fact it becomes the duty of the superman to forward his end irrespective
of the rights of others. As Nietzsche says "All great action partakes of
criminality". Sometimes there is a reversal of moral values. The
characters in the Parker-Hulme books clearly showed this reversal.
Nietzsche's megalomania pushed to its ultimate conclusion led to insanity.
Dostoevsky's student Raskolnikov's megalomania led him to murder in the
same way as the adolescent megalomania of Leopold and Loeb, and Parker and
Hulme led to their senseless murders.
(Dr. Medlicott is Medical Superintendent of Ashburn Hall, Dunedin. The
foregoing article is a reprint of an address given by him to the Auckland
Medico-Legal Society earlier this year.)
***
A brief extract from the New Zealand Law Journal, 1955, pp. 140-1: W.J.
Hall, 'The McNaghten Rules. A Plea for their Revision':
The McNaghten Rules have been discussed, and at times were under heavy
fire, during the English trials of Ronald True, Heath, Haigh, Peter
Griffiths and Straffen, and the New Zealand trial of Parker and Hulme, and
it seems beyond doubt to anyone who reads the full accounts of these
trials that, although all were convicted of murder, and several were
hanged, some, at least, were suffering from advanced insanity, although in
law it was not pleadable and did not save them from the gallows. Put
bluntly, insanity is still no safeguard against hanging. That a may be
quite insane, but still be condemned and hanged for his actions, is a
state of affairs that should not be a matter for satisfaction in a
civilised community.
Ever,
Phil
--------------- MESSAGE heavenly-c.v001.n130.8 ---------------
From: "Jefferson F. Morris" <jfmorris@CapAccess.org>
Subject: Drafting...and grumbling about grumbling
Date: Thu, 19 Sep 1996 12:23:40 -0400 (EDT)
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII
On Wed, 18 Sep 1996, Phil West wrote:
> (1) I think Jefferson should definitely write the letter! After all, he
> sat through 'A Kid in King Arthur's Court'.
Alright, I'll give it a whirl. I'll have a draft posted by Friday.
--Jefferson
P.S. Phil addressed this in his 'grumbly creatures' post, but I figured
I'd second it. Most of us here are what you might call "fans" of Heavenly
Creatures, its producers and stars. If we want to delve into deep
sociological discussions of New Zealand family life and gender politics
in the 1950's, then we will. If we want to send birthday messages to a
cute British actress, then we will. If we want to talk about Melanie
Lynskey's frizzy hair, we will. This is the kind of stuff fans do.
Sometimes it's serious, sometimes its frivolous. But let us have our
bouts of frivolity. If you don't care for them, then either bless us
with your silence, or take advantage of the listserv's unsub capabilities.
Honestly, I wouldn't care if Peter Jackson himself jumped on the list and
told us to "get a life." We have lives, which were slightly altered
(I daresay improved) when we walked into a theater/video store one day and
decided to take a chance on a somewhat obscure foreign film about two
teenage girls in the 50's. That's all. Pretty simple, really.
--------------- MESSAGE heavenly-c.v001.n130.9 ---------------
From: Phil West <pgw16@hermes.cam.ac.uk>
Subject: Revisions and retellings
Date: Thu, 19 Sep 1996 18:43:07 +0100 (BST)
MIME-Version: 1.0
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Jane wrote
> The film re-dressed many imbalances (including in my
> opinion, those of the Laurie/Glamuzina interpretation) in the
> re-telling of the story. Once an event has occured there can *only*
> be re-tellings of it anyway - this is unavoidable. Most
> contemporary NZ'ers are far removed from the death of Nora Parker
> but it is part of NZ's history and there *is* interest, but no
> longer horror - maybe in some people there is a curiosity, a drive
> to understand how and why it happened.
I think of HC as basically a revisionist operation, taking to pieces the
over-simplistic explanations of the girls' relationship and crime offered
by existing accounts and theories. As New Zealand listers say, PJ made
the film with them - and their knowledge of the case - very much in mind.
As with all revisionism, the danger is that having cleared away the flawed
existing accounts, there's nothing much left at all (revisionist
historians are accused of this all the time). But with a deeply disturbing
and (probably) inexplicable story like HC's, it can be an advantage to
leave a gaping void at the centre. Certainly I've found that part of the
film's success in presenting a true tragedy is its ability to lay all the
available data on the table, yet for there to be still no 'explanation'
which holds water. Didn't PJ say in an interview that he still watches
the film and asks himself 'Why?' (another red herring?) It's as if the film
says: there can/will never be a 'true' version of events, if that means
knowing precisely the causes, motives and feelings of the girl - but here
is everything we know.
Not quite right, but I'm getting there.
Ever,
Phil
--------------- MESSAGE heavenly-c.v001.n130.10 ---------------
From: Jean Guerin <orson@CAM.ORG>
Subject: Re: Drafting...and grumbling about grumbling
Date: Thu, 19 Sep 96 16:20:57 -0400
MIME-Version: 1.0
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>Honestly, I wouldn't care if Peter Jackson himself jumped on the list and
>told us to "get a life."
Yow! Don't be so defensive.
I think there's some overeaction to my slightly sarcastic comments here.
I partly wanted to raise the level of discourse and mostly was teasing.
I myself label myself an "otaku" (the japanese word for "obsessed
fa-boy") in regards to my interest for japanese fantasy cinema (yes! I
like Godzilla movies and Ultraman TV shows!)
There is actually someone out there who is currently "on a pilgrimage" to
Auckland to find Pauline and "let her know her life is symbolic"- this
one in particular did get my blood up! Leave poor Pauline alone!!!
As a relatively new (and still minor) public persona it is sometimes
stratling how fast some people forget you are a real person. It also
makes it very hard to weed out who is genuinely interested in you as an
individual and who assumes your life is what you project onscreen.
Frankly, I don't know of any fellow actor who isn't put off by this from
time to time.
As for excitingly discussing symbolism and sendind B-day wishes to Kate,
I'm all for it- or else I wouldn't be part of the list.
I'm glad to see my comment has still stirred some people into
contributing serious discourse rather than being intimidated by
trivialities.
Then again, maybe I was just being Hideous!
Jean Guerin
Bon Vivant, Raconteur
Writer (HOUR, CineFantastique)
Actor ("Heavenly Creatures")
Film Buff (Fant*Asia Festival & The Festival That Ate My Brain)
Movie Critic (CBC's Brave New Waves & CBC-TV's CityBeat)
"Sexy Demon" -TIME magazine
orson@cam.org
http://www.cam.org/~orson
--------------- END heavenly-c.v001.n130 ---------------
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Subject: Digest heavenly-c.v001.n131
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-------------- BEGIN heavenly-c.v001.n131 --------------
001 - Michael Pellas <mpellas@s - My ramblings in response to grumblings
002 - Bao Ly <lybao@earthlink.n - Message on Kate's Birthday
003 - bronwyn@globalserve.on.ca - Re: unlurking
004 - Steven Fammatre <rotwiler - Grumblings
005 - Bao Ly <lybao@earthlink.n - Jude's at Wessex
006 - John Argentiero <jargent@ - HC Trailer for sale...maybe...
007 - 9506148v@Magpie.Magill.Un - Happy Birthday Kate
008 - Jean Guerin <orson@CAM.OR - Re: Grumblings
009 - "karen mcquillen" <kmcqui - Unsubscribe
010 - "Jefferson F. Morris" <jf - Re: Drafting...and grumbling about grumbling
--------------- MESSAGE heavenly-c.v001.n131.1 ---------------
From: Michael Pellas <mpellas@sgi.net>
Subject: My ramblings in response to grumblings
Date: Thu, 19 Sep 1996 17:34:25 -0400
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
If we want to delve into deep sociological discussions of New Zealand
family life and gender politics in the 1950's, then we will. If we want to
send birthday messages to a cute British actress, then we will. If we want
to talk about Melanie Lynskey's frizzy hair, we will. This is the kind of
stuff fans do.
> I know I am here for it all...I don't really speak up much...but I enjoy
reading all the posts. I love to read all your postings, from deep
discussions about the relationship that HC has with Romoe and Juliet to
deciding who should pick out the birthday card. Whats crazy is how much I
look forward to seeing where Phil, Jefferson, Bao and everybody else take
the discussion. I really feel that I am lucky to be part of such a unique
group of intelligent people.
Sometimes it's serious, sometimes its frivolous.
>The beautiful part about this list is the variety of people... I don't
have much experience in 'net mailing lists, but this has to be, at least,
one of the most diverse.
We have lives, which were slightly altered(I daresay improved) when we
walked into a theater/video store one day and decided to take a chance on a
somewhat obscure foreign film about two teenage girls in the 50's.
>Mine was...I look at film, in a completely different way. I have learned
so much by reading the debates between listers on the various topics that
have been discussed. I might not always post anything of importance, but
the quality of discussion here is amazing.
Pretty simple, really.
>No actually...I don't think it is... we wouldn't be here if it was simple.
Would We?
yours,
Michael
"They say Confucius does his crossword with a pen..."
--------------- MESSAGE heavenly-c.v001.n131.2 ---------------
From: Bao Ly <lybao@earthlink.net>
Subject: Message on Kate's Birthday
Date: Thu, 19 Sep 1996 14:43:42 -0700
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
Hello everyone
Kate Winslet's birthday is coming, only 17 days left. If you're
subscribed to the list, why not be a part of it by sending your "Happy
Birthday" message to Kate Winslet. There are people on the list who have
put a lot of efforts in trying to this--why spoiled it now? I can't
think of any reason why we shouldn't do it, other than the fact that
no-one wants to do it. This is certainly not the case. Also, I can't
imagine why anyone on the list would not want to say a simple "Happy
Birthday" to Kate Winslet and make this plan of ours a successful one.
We need to do this--"It's for the good of your health..." dear.
Judging from the 'consents' of those whom had posted their "Happy
Birthday" wishes...I am sensing that there are a great number of people
who feel the same, but haven't done so yet. I urge those haven't done
so to start posting their messages soon. If we don't come together now
as a group and do this--I believe it will ruined all possibilities of
any future plans, as such, for everyone. If we can do this...so can we
to get Miramax to released the un-cut version of HC and Vogager to
released the Criterion Collection of HC. If we don't do this--it's
everyone's lost. Please show us your support.
And I thank you all.
lybao@earthlink.net
Have an adequate day.
==========================
The Lord's Prayer is 66 words, the Gettysburg Address is 286 words,
there are 1,322 words in the Declaration of Independence, but
government regulations on the sale of cabbage total 26,911 words.
-- From an article on the growth of federal regulations
in the Oct. 24th issue of National Review
For heaven sake, send in those Birthday wishes! and be counted for. Do
it now!!!
--------------- MESSAGE heavenly-c.v001.n131.3 ---------------
From: bronwyn@globalserve.on.ca (Bronwyn Graves)
Subject: Re: unlurking
Date: Thu, 19 Sep 1996 18:50:52 -0400 (EDT)
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
Hi all,
I have been lurking for over a month now, and have finally decided
to make my entrance! In a nutshell I am a 20 year old student in Toronto,
Ontario, Canada at the University of Toronto. I am pursuing a double major
in Criminology and Anthropology. I have a strong music theatre background,
and a few of my other interests include HC (of course), good books, my Welsh
heritage, travel and sailing Lasers and Laser 2's. Now that that's over
with....
I recall mention on the FAQ of a novel based on the Parker/Hulme case
called Obsession. I can't remember the author, but has anyone read it?
I guess that's all for now. Jean, it's nice to see a fellow Canadian
actor on this list and in such a wonderful film!
Bronwyn Graves
"It's all just FRIGHTFULLY romantic!"
--------------- MESSAGE heavenly-c.v001.n131.4 ---------------
From: Steven Fammatre <rotwiler@uclink4.berkeley.edu>
Subject: Grumblings
Date: Thu, 19 Sep 1996 17:56:17 -0700
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
...chill people.....
Ciao.
Steven Fammatre
--------------- MESSAGE heavenly-c.v001.n131.5 ---------------
From: Bao Ly <lybao@earthlink.net>
Subject: Jude's at Wessex
Date: Thu, 19 Sep 1996 18:16:39 -0700
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
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Jude, the new film by Michael Winterbottom starring Kate Winslet and
Christopher Eccleston is coming out on Oct. 18, 1996 in the U.S. (about
two weeks later in Canada and a month later in the U.K.).
For those who've been reading up on the novel, "Jude The Obscure," knows
that Thomas Hardy was known as a transitional novelist, bridging the gap
between the Victorian and the modern periods. His last two very
controversial works, "Tess of the D'Urbervilles" and "Jude The Obscure"
(both have been made into films by Roman Polanski and Michael
Winterbottom respectively) deal with the very critial treatment of sex
and marriage during this period, that today would consider quite
conservative. Thomas Hardy's 19th century's Wessex is just as
interesting as the New Zealand culture for the 'I'm actually from
England' fans.
According to The University of Durham Magazine: 'Jude, the new cinema
version of "Jude the Obscure," was filmed not in Dorset, Oxford and
Salisbury (Hardy's Wessex, Christminster and Melchester), but in the
Yorkshire Dales, Edinburgh and Durham, where the locations still had
more authentic character.'
http://www.dur.ac.uk/Alumni/d1.3/wessex.htm (Behind-the-scene photos!)
lybao@earthlink.net
Life is very hard.
==========================
Bohemia
Authors and actors and artists and such
Never know nothing, and never know much.
Sculptors and singers and those of their kidney
Tell their affairs from Seattle to Sydney.
Playwrights and poets and such horses' necks
Start off from anywhere, end up at sex.
Diarists, critics, and similar roe
Never say nothing, and never say no.
People Who Do Things exceed my endurance;
God, for a man that solicits insurance!
Miss Dorothy Parker, like Ogden Nash, is a master of short poems.
--------------- MESSAGE heavenly-c.v001.n131.6 ---------------
From: John Argentiero <jargent@wam.umd.edu>
Subject: HC Trailer for sale...maybe...
Date: Thu, 19 Sep 1996 22:52:05 -0400 (EDT)
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII
Hello, ye of the obsessive collecting nature,
As I mentioned before, our student theater is showing Heavenly
Creatures next month. Being a theater, we get little perks, like trailers
and such. There is a slim possibility that I may get my hands on said
trailer. Which then means it will of course be put up on the open
market.
This is, I assume, the best place to try and pawn it off.
So, I'll soon start taking bids, though mostly right now it's
hypothetical, since I don't have the trailer in hand yet.
So let me know how much it would be worth my (and your) while to
go and get the revered Heavenly Craetures trailer, in all its 35mm
glory...the ultimate knick-knack to convince your friends you really are
insane...
Bids start at the buying price of $25.
Tata,
John Argentiero
jargent@wam.umd.edu
--------------- MESSAGE heavenly-c.v001.n131.7 ---------------
From: 9506148v@Magpie.Magill.UniSA.edu.au
Subject: Happy Birthday Kate
Date: Fri, 20 Sep 1996 16:59:22 +0930
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT
Hi all... my email's playing up, so hopefully I haven't posted this too many
times by accident - if I have... I'm sorry!
All I want to say is :
Happy 21st Birthday, Kate
Shannon
--------------- MESSAGE heavenly-c.v001.n131.8 ---------------
From: Jean Guerin <orson@CAM.ORG>
Subject: Re: Grumblings
Date: Fri, 20 Sep 96 04:39:13 -0400
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII"
>...chill people....
hear hear!
--------------- MESSAGE heavenly-c.v001.n131.9 ---------------
From: "karen mcquillen" <kmcquillen@ets.org>
Subject: Unsubscribe
Date: Fri, 20 Sep 96 10:14:59 EDT
Please unsubscribe me from this list...or forward instructions on how to do
so. Thank you.
--------------- MESSAGE heavenly-c.v001.n131.10 ---------------
From: "Jefferson F. Morris" <jfmorris@CapAccess.org>
Subject: Re: Drafting...and grumbling about grumbling
Date: Fri, 20 Sep 1996 14:37:53 -0400 (EDT)
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII
On Thu, 19 Sep 1996, Jean Guerin wrote:
> I think there's some overeaction to my slightly sarcastic comments here.
> I partly wanted to raise the level of discourse and mostly was teasing.
No offense taken. I've often had problems with translating sarcasm over
e-mail. I guess I'm a little edgy lately. A moon phase or something.
> I myself label myself an "otaku" (the japanese word for "obsessed
> fa-boy") in regards to my interest for japanese fantasy cinema (yes! I
> like Godzilla movies and Ultraman TV shows!)
Rock on. I dimly remember the old Ultraman shows. And I've been known
to watch a bit of wacked-out anime every so often. I especially like the
ones where some nerdy japanese high school student gets turned into a
superman and ends up destroying Tokyo with his penis.
> There is actually someone out there who is currently "on a pilgrimage" to
> Auckland to find Pauline and "let her know her life is symbolic"- this
> one in particular did get my blood up! Leave poor Pauline alone!!!
I agree wholeheartedly. That particular person should "get a life," and
not try to exhume someone else's.
--Jefferson
--------------- END heavenly-c.v001.n131 ---------------
From heavenly-c-errors@lists.best.com Sat Sep 21 16:12:03 1996
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Subject: Digest heavenly-c.v001.n132
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-------------- BEGIN heavenly-c.v001.n132 --------------
001 - Phil West <pgw16@hermes.c - Re: Delurking
002 - Paul Laurence Bird <93072 - I think this list is fentestic
003 - "Jefferson F. Morris" <jf - Re: I think this list is fentestic
004 - 9506148v@Magpie.Magill.Un - Re: I think this list is fentestic
005 - yyancey1@ic3.ithaca.edu - Re: Young Poisoner's Handbook
006 - Phil West <pgw16@hermes.c - Kate Winslet article (HC bit)
007 - Bao Ly <lybao@earthlink.n - Current Biography: Anne Perry
--------------- MESSAGE heavenly-c.v001.n132.1 ---------------
From: Phil West <pgw16@hermes.cam.ac.uk>
Subject: Re: Delurking
Date: Fri, 20 Sep 1996 23:54:20 +0100 (BST)
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII
On Thursday, Bronwyn wrote
> I recall mention on the FAQ of a novel based on the Parker/Hulme case
> called Obsession. I can't remember the author, but has anyone read it?
I haven't found this yet, but I've just read the "non-fictional" account
by the same authors, Mssrs. Gurr and Cox. It's pretty dreadful, and
highly fictional. The physical description of the girls is real
tabloidese stuff: PYP the sinister, limping midget, JMH a wicked fairy.
The only good thing about this book is the pictures: 2 diary entries, the
girls outside the court, the spot where Honora was killed (complete with
*lots* of blood) and a very good close-up of PYP in the famous school
photo. The latter is clear enough to tell that the scowl she is pulling
is much fiercer than Melanie Lynskey's in the film. Chilling. And the
Victoria Park photo is very chilling indeed.
Which reminds me...
> >...chill people....
>
> hear hear!
Cool for Cats (and other Creatures)!
Ever,
Phil
--------------- MESSAGE heavenly-c.v001.n132.2 ---------------
From: Paul Laurence Bird <930727@bud.cc.swin.edu.au>
Subject: I think this list is fentestic
Date: Sat, 21 Sep 1996 11:36:47 +1000 (EST)
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII
Y'ello
I've been lurking here for a while now, and I have found the discussions
very interesting. At first I thought: Ok, we all love HC, but how much
can you say about *one* movie? You've all put my mind at rest :)
I'm in Melbourne, Australia and thus got to see the Australian release,
but was shocked like you all to read about all the extra bits in the NZ
version! I am looking forward to seeing it on the big screen again in
October here at the Astor, which some one was kind enough to point out.
Any other Melbourne fans on this list? We should meet at the theatre
and say hi, it would be interesting to meet some fellow fan(atic)s!
To add my two cents to the recent discussions:
1) I'm a big Tori fan too...anybody know if she's seen the movie!?
2) I showed HC to my mother also, she was a a little perturbed! :)
In the 60s, she attended a similar high brow "english" style girls school,
and she said the school atmosphere was captured very well in HC.
And a question for you all:
How much did you know about the movie/case/etc before you saw the movie?
Was it a more powerful experience seeing it without knowing anything
about it? Not realising it actually happened, and that much of the
voiceover was from the actual diaries?
Nice to meet you all, albeit electronically :)
Cheers,
Paul Bird
930727@swin.edu.au
Did you ever stop to think, and forget to start again?
--------------- MESSAGE heavenly-c.v001.n132.3 ---------------
From: "Jefferson F. Morris" <jfmorris@CapAccess.org>
Subject: Re: I think this list is fentestic
Date: Sat, 21 Sep 1996 02:42:06 -0400 (EDT)
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII
On Sat, 21 Sep 1996, Paul Laurence Bird wrote:
> I've been lurking here for a while now, and I have found the discussions
> very interesting. At first I thought: Ok, we all love HC, but how much
> can you say about *one* movie? You've all put my mind at rest :)
A number of people had similar doubts when I told them about this list.
I wasn't sure myself, but I figured, if any single 100 (or 110) minute
film can support an entire mailing list, it's this one.
I think we've done rather well. In fact I think we should all
congratulate ourselves. We'll have to send the list a birthday greeting
as well. When will that be, anyway?
> 2) I showed HC to my mother also, she was a a little perturbed! :)
I have yet to screen HC for my mother. But she's aware of the film. She
did raise an eyebrow when I started rifling through her old Mario Lanza
records.
> How much did you know about the movie/case/etc before you saw the movie?
> Was it a more powerful experience seeing it without knowing anything
> about it?
I had gleaned from various reviews that the film was based on a true-life
case, so I knew that the opening text in the film was factual. But I had
never heard of the murder until the film was released.
Films often advertise themselves as
being "Based on a True Story," as if it's some kind of bonus, like a
third Twinkie. As if it'll give you an extra case of the chills because it
actually happened (more or less). I wonder about this. Does the fact that
there were actual people named Pauline, Juliet, and Honora make the film
more resonant?
Speaking as an American, I'd have to say no. I think the film would have
moved me just as much if it had been completely made up. Drama is drama,
after all. Well-written characters assume a kind of 'reality' for an
audience, no matter what they're based on. When we watch a film (or see
a play, or read a book), we can feel very intense emotional
identification and sympathy for people who are completely illusory. I've
always found this effect rather magical.
I suppose a lot depends on cultural background, though. For example, I
always thought the segment at the end of 'Schindler's List' in which the actual
survivors lay stones on Schindler's grave to be somewhat dramatically
superfluous. The story had been told, and I didn't find it any more
powerful for having seen the real people. It felt almost as if Spielberg
didn't quite trust the film he had made to have the impact he wanted.
But then again, I'm a twentysomething gentile living in America, so who
am I to be critical?
I suppose Spielberg wasn't worrying so much about
dramatic effects at that point. He was memorializing an event, and
paying tribute to an extraordinary legacy. Certainly a laudable thing.
But I guess sometimes I'm a bit aesthetically selfish. I don't want
anything distracting me from the perfect viewing experience. I guess I
should just shut up, really.
Looks like I've digressed. Anyway, in short, I don't think the knowledge
that HC was based on reality particularly enhanced the impact of the
story for me. But then again, I can't empirically prove this. Who knows
how I would have reacted otherwise? And I certainly might have
reacted differently if I'd been a middle-aged New Zealander, or a lesbian.
But then again, as Kris Kristofferson said in 'Pat Garrett & Billy the
Kid' (Another cool fact-based movie), "Might be the dog woulda caught the
rabbit, if he hadn't thought to shit."
> Did you ever stop to think, and forget to start again?
I think I just did.
--Jefferson
--------------- MESSAGE heavenly-c.v001.n132.4 ---------------
From: 9506148v@Magpie.Magill.UniSA.edu.au
Subject: Re: I think this list is fentestic
Date: Sat, 21 Sep 1996 16:13:26 +0930
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT
On Sat, 21 Sep 1996, Paul Laurence Bird wrote:
> How much did you know about the movie/case/etc before you saw the movie?
> Was it a more powerful experience seeing it without knowing anything
> about it? Not realising it actually happened, and that much of the
> voiceover was from the actual diaries?
Well, I was moved to go and see the film when it was first released here in
Australia by a review in Juice magazine, which gave a complete plot summary
and general run-down of the history of the case, even going so far as to
quote from the policewoman who's job it was to pick up Honora's detatched
fingers from next to the body. So I knew what was going to happen, more or
less, but I still don't think that knowing the plot detracted at all from
the experience - I don't believe that it could have been more powerful. I
think that the power of the film has less to do with the murder itself
than with the events leading up to it, so it doesn't really matter that we
know that Honora is going to be killed.
Oh yeah... welcome!
Shannon <9506148v@magpie.magill.unisa.edu.au>
'It's everyone else who's bonkers!'
--------------- MESSAGE heavenly-c.v001.n132.5 ---------------
From: yyancey1@ic3.ithaca.edu
Subject: Re: Young Poisoner's Handbook
Date: Fri, 20 Sep 1996 14:48:11 -0400 (EDT)
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT
When I saw The Young Poisoner's Handbook being reviewed (on the
same program where I first heard about HC), the little clip they showed
reminded me in some vague way of HC. But when I went to see it (w/ the
same person I went to see HC w/, incidentally), neither of us really saw
any parallels.
I haven't seen A Clockwork Orange (just read the book, it's
always out at the vid store), but my friend did say the music was the same.
Jesse, I almost saw Sister, My Sister on cable, but I've never heard
anything about it and I don't know what it's about. Please tell me.
Tine, no need to apologize ("...I found it frightfully difficult
myself until I got the hang of it"). How were you to know what gender I was?
Yani
--------------- MESSAGE heavenly-c.v001.n132.6 ---------------
From: Phil West <pgw16@hermes.cam.ac.uk>
Subject: Kate Winslet article (HC bit)
Date: Sat, 21 Sep 1996 20:56:24 +0100 (BST)
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII
[Part of a big Kate Winslet article published today in the Daily Telegraph
(Sat 21 Sept, 1996, colour supplement, pp. 20-4).]
History does not record how far she entered into the psyche of the girl in
the Sugar Puffs commercial with which she started her career, when she was
13 and at Redroofs Theatrical School in Maidenhead. But her involvement
with her character in her debut film 'Heavenly Creatures' shocked even her
director. [...]
"'Heavenly Creatures' was the most extraordinary experience of my
life," says Winslet, with her usual certainty, "because we really did
become them. It was absolutely harrowing. I was 17, Mel was 15, we
didn't know anything about how you have to prepare yourself mentally when
you go into a film, and it was like leaving half of my heart behind in
leaving Mel when I had to come home. Because we really became one
person."
Winslet's immersion in the role alarmed even the film's director.
"Remember: this isn't real," he is said to have warned her. "It's not
really happening." When she came back she had three weeks to prepare
herself for her next job, a second series of 'Get Back', a now-forgotten
sitcom. "I thought, Christ, what do I do? And I realised that I'd been
traumatised, that I'd been through an ordeal, and the only way I could
deal with it was to spend days and days just crying it out of my system."
*
I shan't upset Kate devotees by describing the 9 photographs which
accompany this article!
Yours off in search of liquid refreshment,
Phil
--------------- MESSAGE heavenly-c.v001.n132.7 ---------------
From: Bao Ly <lybao@earthlink.net>
Subject: Current Biography: Anne Perry
Date: Sat, 21 Sep 1996 15:31:30 -0700
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Anne Perry was featured in Current Biography, Aug. 1996, v57, n8, p. 39
(4). Just when I=92d stopped reading Current Biography as of June (two
months later), they decided to put Anne Perry in this year=92s annual.
{grumble}=20
To return the favor, I have decided to OCR the document and post it to
the mailing list. Anne Perry readers take note {"It's difficult to read
Perry's works without being struck by the connections between her
authorial concerns and the circumstances of her life," Brainard noted.}
{She is also at work on a three-volume fantasy, set in an imaginary land
similar to both Egypt and Rome in the first century A.D.}
lybao@earthlink.net ("Life is very hard.")
Both the Zemeckis Theory and Hamlet+Homosexuality Theorist
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D
[usual book jacket photo]
Perry, Anne=20
Ballantine Books/Peter Simpkin=20
Oct. 28,1938- British writer. Address: c/o Meg Davis, MBA Literary
Agents Ltd., 45 Fitzroy St., London W1P SHR, England=20
In the United States, where 3 million copies of her books are in print,
and in her native Britain, Anne Perry has won fame over the last 17
years--as the creator of two distinctive detective series. The first,
beginning with The Cater Street Hangman and including Perry's most
recent novel, Pentecost Alley, is set in late Victorian London and
features the police inspector Thomas Pitt and his upper-middle-class
wife, Charlotte. The second, centered in the same city about 30 years
earlier, focuses on a very different pair of characters: the amnesiac
detective William Monk and a nurse, Hester Latterly, who are the heroes
of The Face of a Stranger and Cain His Brother, among other works.
Critics have cited both series for their close attention to the details
of 19th-century British life and for the complexity of the characters.
"Anne Perry [has] put herself on the map as a mystery novelist who is
also a superior tour guide to Victorian London," Rosemary Herbert wrote
in a summary assessment for the New York Times Book Review (November 18
1990), noting that Perry's London evoked "the haunts of Sherlock Holmes
and even the districts exposed by Charles Dickens" and that her intent,
like that of Dickens, "has been to entertain the reader with well-paced
action and strong plot lines while uncovering societal woes." Reviewing
Belgrave Square--the 12th book in the Pitt series--for the New York
Times Book Review (April 19, 1992), Marilyn Stasio remarked that Perry
"has the eyes of a hawk for character nuance," and a writer for
Publishers Weekly (January 24, 1994) similarly stressed that Perry
"keeps her series fresh and continually compelling" by "painting her
characters' personal dilemmas as vividly as she does their historical
context." Several of Perry's books have been translated into Russian,
Japanese, Portuguese, German, and Italian.=20
At about the time that Perry completed her 20th book, Traitors Gate
(1995), Ballantine Books awarded her a $1.4 million contract to pen
eight more titles in the next four years. Her success as a writer was
soon overshadowed by the revelation that Perry, n=E9e Juliet Hulme, had 4=
0
years earlier committed a murder. Perry suddenly found herself under
intense public scrutiny, and she feared that her publisher and her
readers would desert her. She was the beneficiary, instead, of a
widespread show of support from friends, colleagues, and fans. Linda
Grey, the president and publisher of Ballantine, remarked that officials
there were "greatly surprised" to hear the details of Perry's past but
added, "There was never a moment where we didn't feel that this was a
very courageous woman who had led an exemplary life."
Anne Perry was born Juliet Marion Hulme on October 28,1938, in
London, the older child, and only daughter, of H. Marion (Reavley)
Perry, a teacher of mentally handicapped people. The man listed in some
biographical sources as her father, the industrial engineer Walter A. B.
Perry, was in fact her stepfather, and she did not live with him until
after her release from criminal detention, following the murder. Her
biological father, with whom she lived until her mid-teens, was a
distinguished research physicist. Perry led a difficult and lonely
childhood, isolated from her family members and other children because
of a recurrent respiratory illness that resulted in frequent hospital
stays. "When I was in hospital, I wasn't allowed to read," Perry told
Dulcy Brainard during an interview for Publishers Weekly (March 27,
1995). "I survived in my imagination. I just shut my eyes and lived in
my head. If you can't read, you have to make your own stories--from what
you have read, what you know, and what you imagine. [History] was magic.
Those people were totally real to me."
When Perry was eight years old, doctors informed her parents that
she would probably not be strong enough to survive another winter in
England. Her parents thus sent her to live with a foster family in the
Bahamas. This family then moved to New Zealand, and a year later, in
1948, Perry's father took a post as the president of Christchurch
University College, in Christchurch, New Zealand, where the Hulme family
was reunited. "That was quite an adjustment," Perry told Brainard, for
she felt that the other members of her family were "nearly strangers" to
her by that time. When she was 11, Perry was sent to boarding school,
but she was so miserable there that her parents took her out after one
year.
In 1953 Perry developed a severe case of tuberculosis, and she was
confined to a sanatorium for three months. Her parents were away from
New Zealand during this time, and her closest contact with the outside
world was a friend, Pauline Parker, whom Perry had met at the private
Christchurch Girls High School both had been attending. The two had
developed an extremely close friendship, and when Perry was in the
sanatorium, Parker wrote to her every day. "I didn't know if I was going
to get better," Perry recalled to Pam Lambert for People (September 26,
1994), describing her fears during that period. "[Pauline Parker] stood
by me as a lifeline."
Perry was released from the hospital in early 1954, only to find
the remnants of her personal world unraveling. Her mother was leaving
her father hr another man, and her father had lost his job and was
planning to return to England, taking Perry and her brother with him.
Pauline Parker reacted to the news of Perry's imminent departure with
panic. She asked her mother, Honora Parker, to allow her to go to
England with her friend, only to have her request turned down. Perry
feared that her volatile companion might commit suicide; at the same
time, she herself was still recovering from her illness with the aid of
medication that, she has said, was later removed from the market
because, as a side-effect, it warped the judgment of its users. When
Pauline Parker suggested a plot for the murder of Honora Parker, Perry
agreed, believing, she told Lambert, that her friend would commit
suicide if she didn't. "It seemed to be one life or the other. She had
stood by me when I was ill, and to my mind it seemed like no one else
had.... Was I going to walk out and leave her?"
Of the bludgeoning death of Honora Parker, Perry has maintained
that she recollects very riffle, Nor does she remember much of the
sensational six-day trial that followed--a courtroom case that remains
one of the most notorious in New Zealand criminal history--other than
the prosecutor's attempt to paint the two girls' friendship as having
lesbian overtones. Perry has since dismissed that suggestion, telling
Dulcy Brainard, "At 15, in those days, we were about as sexually knowing
as the average four-year-old is now. I have no reason to suppose that
[Pauline Parker] wasn't as totally innocent in that respect as I was."
Because Perry and Parker were minors, they were unable to take the
witness stand in their own defense. In little more than two hours, an
all-male jury, having been presented with Parker's diary as evidence,
found Perry and Parker guilty of murder. The two girls were sentenced to
indefinite terms in separate adult prisons, with Perry becoming the
youngest inmate at Mount Eden, a woman's facility with a reputation as
the toughest in the country. Perry performed demanding physical labor
and received no visitors other than the headmistress of a school she had
attended earlier. At the beginning of her incarceration, Perry told
Lambert, she "got on [her] knees and said, 'I am at fault, and I am
sorry,'" and she resolved to henceforth be the best person she possibly
could.
After serving five and a half years, Perry was released from Mount
Eden. (Pauline Parker was released simultaneously, but the two were
forbidden to contact each other.) Urged by the New Zealand authorities
to adopt a new identity, Perry chose the surname of her stepfather and
returned to live with him and her mother in Newcastle-on-Tyne, England.
She became a secretary, a vocation that was the mainstay of her
livelihood for almost two decades; in addition, she periodically tried
her hand at other occupations, including flight attendant, saleswoman,
limousine dispatcher, and property underwriter. From 1967 to 1972 she
lived in California, and it was in San Francisco that Perry converted to
the Mormon Church, which she has credited with helping her to come to
terms with her past. "I think all Christian faiths will say that if you
have paid the price and truly repented, there is forgiveness,'' Perry
told Sarah Lyall for the New York Times (August 17, 1994).
Perry had long nurtured an intense desire to write, and in her late
20s she began penning historical novels, accumulating enough rejection
slips, she told Brainard, "to cover the walls." In the late 1970s she
tried her hand at mystery writing, a decision that coincided with an
introduction (via a new neighbor in the small Suffolk village where
Perry then lived) to a literary agent in London. Within two weeks of
Perry's having sent her manuscript to the agent, St. Martin's Press
bought The Cater Street Hangman (1979). That novel introduced the
awkward but astute Police Inspector Thomas Pitt, here investigating a
series of grisly murders of servant girls in "proper" London households.
The reviewer for Booklist (November 1, 1979) praised Perry's first
published effort, noting that "the pretensions and limitations of an
upper-middle-class Victorian home are lucidly revealed--while the
identity of the true murderer is cleverb concealed." A writer for
Publishers Weekly (June 25, 1979) expressed a similar opinion, noting
that Perry's "steamy climax . . . goes right to the heart of Victorian
prudery and repression."
In her second novel Perry introduced a plot element that was to be
a constant in the subsequent books in the Pitt series. Callander Square
(1980) finds Inspector Pitt married to the quick-witted Charlotte
Ellison, whom he met and courted in The Cater Street Hangman. Charlotte,
aided by her sister, Emily, assists her husband in his sleuthing and is
able to attain access via family connections to well-bred society
circles beyond Pitt's reach. "[This] is as much a novel of manners as it
is a mystery story," Newgate Callander wrote in the New York Times Book
Review (March 29, 1980). "There is a . . . good portrait of the
stratification of Victorian life. But the crime element is not
neglected.... The interesting thing about the book is the writing, which
does evoke the period." H. C. Veit. reviewing Callander Square for
Library Journal (March 1, 1980), concurred, singling out the characters
as "particularly strong and lively" and the atmosphere as "authentic."
Perry wrote an additional eight Pitt mysteries for St. Martin's
Press: Paragon Walk (1981); Resurrection Row (1981); Rutland Place
(1983); Bluegate Fields (1984); Death in the Devil's Acre (1985);
Cardington Crescent (1987); Silence in Hanover Close (1988); and
Bethlehem Road (1990). The themes she had set in the first two books
consistently reappear: the class divisions and tensions that define
social existence in 1880s Victorian London; the lives and everyday
concerns of the women, both society ladies and servants; the decadence
underlying the facade of respectability in the world of London's upper
class (most of the crimes in the Pitt series involve sexual deviations
of one sort or another); and the carefully drawn relationships between
recurring characters, both major and minor. The lives of the principal
figures become more complex over time, with Thomas and Charlotte Pitt
adjusting to the demands of their marriage and having children and
Charlotte's sister Emily becoming a widow and later remarrying. In an
essay for The Writer (October 1993), Perry offered the following advice
to those who wish to create recurring characters: "Think how you
yourself have grown, changed your feelings, your views; allow your hero
or heroine to do the same." Giving one of her own characters as an
example, she added, "Charlotte's marriage to Pitt, a man of lower social
status and income, changed her a great deal. She became more practical,
learned to be less outspoken and to modify many of her previous
judgments."
For the third edition of Twentieth Century Crime and Mystery
Writers (1991), Helga Borck and GraceAnne A. DeCandido summarized what
they perceived to be the strengths and weaknesses of the Pitt series:
"[Perry's] depiction of Victorian London is rich and consistent in
period detail. Her characters have depth and complexity, especially in
the later books, and even the worst of them are generally presented with
compassion. What is more, they never come across as moderns in a period
play, but are firmly rooted in their own time and place. If there is a
drawback to Perry's fiction, it is its restriction to a narrow arena,
with the result that a suspiciously large number of crimes plague a
rather small number of people. Perry does her best to transcend such
limitations, but her plots do tend to a certain sameness.... Still, her
Victorian London is a lively and fascinating place, and her characters
keep the reader coming back for more. Once hooked, one waits for each
new volume as for a visit from old friends who call too infrequently."
In 1990 Perry left St. Martin's Press for Ballantine's Fawcett
imprint (under which the paperback editions of her works had been
released), and she began a second mystery series with The Face of A
Stranger (1990). That book introduced William Monk, a detective who has
lost his memory in the aftermath of a carriage accident. Bluffing his
way through his convalescence, Monk returns to work with two mysteries
to solve: that surrounding the gory murder of a nobleman and the equally
baffling puzzle of his own past. Rosemary Herbert, in the New York Times
Book Review (November 18, 1990), praised Perry for having constructed "a
Victorian story with the sophisticated characterization and
psychological suspense that are the everyday tools of the contemporary
writer," and labeled the result "first rate." Five more Monk mysteries
have followed, in annual succession: A Dangerous Mourning (1991); Defend
and Betray (1992); A Sudden, Fearful Death (1993); The Sins of the Wolf
(1994); and Cain His Brother (1995). In the series, the intelligent,
iconoclastic Hester Latterly, a nurse returned from witnessing
first-hand the horrors of the Crimean War, is as pivotal to the story
line as are William Monk and his ongoing self-discovery, and the issue
of women's subordinate status in Victorian England is a recurrent theme.
Discussing the creation of Monk, whose search for clues about his
past life brings to light some unsavory facts about himself Perry told
Dulcy Brainard, "I wanted to explore the situation of having to discover
yourself bit by bit, through the eyes of other people. It's not the
discovery of the monster within yourself, it's discovering that there
are no monsters; there are only people." ("It's difficult to read
Perry's works without being struck by the connections between her
authorial concerns and the circumstances of her life," Brainard noted.)
In a 1981 interview for Contemporary Authors, Perry had expressed that
her chief interest as a writer is in "conflict of ethics, especially
involving honesty with oneself"; she later noted that she began the Monk
detective series "in order to explore a different, darker character and
to raise questions about responsibility, particularly that of a person
for acts he cannot remember." Perry continued to write novels in the
Pitt sequence as well: Highgate Rise (1991); Belgrave Square (1992);
Farrier's Lane (1993); and The Hyde Park Headsman (1994). The reviews
for those books were largely favorable, noting the increasing depth of
Perry's characterizations, the riveting nature of her plots, and her
vivid dissection of Victorian-era hypocrisy.
The disclosure of Perry's crime, which had been known only to a
small circle of her friends and family members, surfaced in the summer
of 1994, as the 15th Pitt mystery, Traitors Gate, was being prepared for
publication. The catalyst was the release of a major motion picture,
Heavenly Creatures, based on the 1954 murder case (which had become a
part of New Zealand popular lore, with at least one novella and one
stage play having already been inspired by it). An enterprising
journalist, Lin Ferguson, set out to discover what had happened to the
real-life models for the characters in the film. Uncovering the path
that led to Anne Perry, Ferguson called the novelist's London agent, Meg
Davis, for verification of her findings. Davis, sure that this was a
case of mistaken identity, immediately telephoned Perry for a
refutation. "I had to say, 'I'm sorry.... It is true,'" Perry told John
Darnton of the New York Times (February 14, 1995), adding, "I thought I
would lose everything. I really thought it would kill my mother." Perry
immediately commenced a round of visits and telephone calls to
neighbors, friends, and colleagues, finding overall "a great deal of
kindness," understanding, and support. She declined Ballantine's offer
to discharge her from contractual obligation for her book promotion
tour, deciding, as she told Pam Lambert for the People profile, that she
must "either stay in hiding for the rest of [her] life or go through
this and come out the other side." She stated that the publicity
surrounding her past "was the last step as far as healing is concerned.
Because I'm finding that now practically everybody in the world knows
who I really am--and they still like me."
Pentecost Alley, Perry's most recent work, features Thomas Pitt in
a mystery set two years after the unsolved series of killings by Jack
the Ripper. When a prostitute is found to have been murdered in a manner
reminiscent of those slayings, Pitt's investigation leads him to the son
of an influential banker. The inspector that finds himself in the middle
of a politically delicate situation, made more complicated by pressure
from his superiors, who do not want their reputations famished further
by yet another open-ended case. "The 16th Thomas and Charlotte Pitt
mystery demonstrates Perry's trademark skill for enhancing well-designed
mystery plots with convincing historical settings and cleverly drawn
relationships among characters," a writer for Publishers Weekly (January
22, 1996) declared. "As Perry edges toward her surprise ending, she
crafts her tale with elegance, narrative depth, and gratifying scope."
Anne Perry has been described as being "proper, almost brusque" in
manner and as being "lanky and long-limbed," with "chestnut-colored
hair." She told Lisa Cohen of the Village Voice (May 9, 1995) that she
is currently working on two historical novels, one set during the French
Revolution and the other in Spain during the Inquisition--periods that,
she remarked in the Contemporary Authors interview, are her favorites
(together with Victorian England), "because of the question of free
agency and the we of force to make others believe as we do, in what we
believe to be their best interest." She is also at work on a
three-volume fantasy, set in an imaginary land similar to both Egypt and
Rome in the first century A.D. Since 1989 Perry has lived near her
mother in a 12-room, converted stone team in the small Scottish village
of Portmahomack, with a spectacular view of the North Sea. She works six
days a week, writing in longhand, and lists G. K. Chesterton, Oscar
Wilde, and Dostoevsky as being among her favorite writers.
Selected Biographical Reference: Maclean's p61 Mr 27 '95 por; N Y Times
C pl5+ F 14 '95 pors; People p57+ S 26 '94 pors; Publishers W p64+ Mr 27
'95 por; Village Voice p4+ My 9 '95; Contemporary Authors new rev vol 22
(1988); Twentieth Century Crime and Mystery Writers (1991)
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